Wed, 11 Mar 2009|
Jeff Shupe of the Cleveland (OH) Fire Department talks to Bobby Halton at FDIC 2008.
I'll Molly -- were on the road and FDIC 2008. And I'm here with my pal -- issue. Longtime instructor FDIC longtime friend Jeff and I was gonna have a conversation here about. This classic just thought you -- -- what they've grown on engines -- by politico I think courtroom well. A lot of good hands on revolutions there we got the student tired we got what they go and tired of what students who we want -- country and it. I only come here to learn something I think -- -- immigrant group product that even teach that class for Betty your turn. Well then and now believe that boot issues as simple as you'll see that you can do this is that they think -- -- -- the -- No stand -- can be found in. -- is much less than high rises -- -- rise buildings. Where I come from we have steel mills steel mills and stand -- and because of -- -- -- an upper level of the building. That's your way to find the order to get on the fire so all the owner's parking -- should have been Parcells also what we're doing for writing class. That's useful not only for -- type operations and highrise buildings were -- -- parts of Bindra is in those others haven't mentioned it to Wal-Mart -- -- -- -- purchases of those -- books deals larger structures even things like indoor Arenas. Football stadiums that are covered and so forth -- in scripture and. So this -- -- operation is a class that really transcends. Far beyond high horizons really about the piping itself -- how to work off of a system. That's that's the system we don't normally don't work off and it really love watching people go through resolutions because the guys commencing -- And so going to be in some tower and -- it's and it's. What we're teaching them is how to manipulate it to an enhancement -- in line through a narrow confines space you -- of the of the -- like four feet wide -- -- -- And it. Most cases these people have never worked with a two and a half inch line before in their home departments they come here to learn something that's question I think we're giving them a good product. Once they start down that tunnel. -- course instructors through their coaching them and telling them what to do. But they start running into wolf -- like -- how you take that too when have to bend around a curve to make it effective. You're trying to put into their mine that they have a hostile fire situation just a few feet ahead of them. So they've got to learn how to -- -- -- down but protect themselves also and we also tell -- that not only is this training applicable for high -- operations. Think about strips are. Way to -- stores. A large -- structure with without walls to confine the fire. Where they're gonna have to move the line -- it's the same techniques as same same teamwork approach. That we're trying to give them how to manipulate his handling a major factor for their part and -- the basis is their safety and their efficiency. I know you -- classes. Most populous we it's important that the guys understand -- pipes don't have to be. Theoretically you could be everywhere cars could you were actually actually taught a class about. Big cities business strategies and tactics for small comfort apartments when they -- about. I do a lot of training home and one area that I was -- and had pretty good success the small one department couple of other fire departments. One -- -- nutrient for them when they heard about how well ignored. Bought in the background there were some people who world. Almost offended I would say probably were offended by a big city coming in teaching -- to their small town people. And it just gave me this or just plan would proceed you know won't -- firefighting is firefighting there's. Basic fire -- principles. We should follow no matter where the fires taking place whether it's in my hometown which is a small rural area or the big city that I work and when I go to work every third day. Use this afflicted basic principles -- what should the engine company the first new engine company be responsible for what about the second -- -- company. Okay if -- apartment is small and -- and have a ladder truck. That doesn't mean we don't do truck work we still have to have truck work to compliment and your work. So this was what Howell or -- -- what gave me via information to develop this. Classroom here. And this just evolved into one of them. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Open the -- And and when you take a big city tactic like that too small town. It's up to get that done and there might be done by an engine might be done by that you've written a medic unit might get assigned to take in the room before or -- -- -- it's less to get done. Still has to get done in all before fighting really break down and tutors and your work and truck work. We have to get the water on the fire to control or -- We also have to do the other services and the truck work is what it is where we open up the building forcing entry do the search work take care and utilities. All that stuff together is -- to compliment the fire attack. Fired -- or fire Stanford cannot be one dimensional so we're gonna be efficient. We have to know those duties and your your your your point is well absolutely correct it why not be. A torque available sol -- -- little subsequent revving engines. Those guys might be told they get to the -- -- get to the attic project the wind -- or whatever the case may be and that's to get -- -- sure you know that we always make the joke and amateurs to exact numbers on this 3000 -- departments in America you know and only about 30000 of engines 3000 have trucks and and really had a we had. Oh. -- a little earlier when that would -- the president was an earlier he said they run on three million truck officer to. When you do yeah you have to improvise -- -- that's a small town still do the work. One of the things that I have in my program is that if you have a small number resources you've got to prioritize. What if we have a three man truck one -- the most pressing issue when we arrived at the structure for if it's a two and a half story friend unifier and a second floor. And you've got it ventilation started while one of those doesn't work do where -- gonna be most effective in activists on them all inside with the tech team looked good of that do you gotta get the violations when you know. Solution as you said what's the first it didn't do engine and do first to truck -- into a second to injury to. That's the that's the tactical discipline I think story to a road back in the early eighties and -- -- -- we want this model where. Some blond -- blue -- -- was gonna roll up on the first and suddenly -- -- It's gonna have a and god was gonna hit a mikes all and suddenly he would know everything about fireplace and tell -- -- ten trucks and engines what to do. It doesn't happen. We need to get people back the discipline I believe of pre -- standard pre assign responsibilities. That doesn't mean. That doesn't mean we're gonna tell you exactly what to do but you're responsible for elation you're responsible for -- you're responsible for -- supply. And how you get it done is the officer's. Responsibility. Now what we've done with this other system. Is we've made our -- are officers irresponsible we've allowed them to be -- responsible. There was a lot of things that I saw -- I've seen in my time. -- -- -- services analog that you know and I don't know it's a generational thing or societal thing or whatever maybe but you're actually right. You know when you -- John Mark when -- the boss's role. Oh there they walked -- the hallways of the fire also scalable -- they're like old dinosaurs we call real. But you know what lot of look guys the do the job because it came up through the -- The jet that was passed on to build from the older people them. And I think what has happened we've had. This thinking that. Anybody can be anything you want at almost any time they want so here -- -- -- a person with three or four years in the job was ready to become an officer. That brings up another. Where flooding is a time honored tradition. It takes a long time to gaining experience gaining the knowledge. And and put that altogether -- -- your content to be if -- for the first. You know. And then let's think about becoming that first level officer but too many cases we see the young people wanted to move right -- the -- because. The got a couple of -- under their belt. And -- -- you know start you know -- you know orders or whatever and that's truly the case that we really need to take that he. Initiative to stop that and provide number one. The need for education. And the need for experience now and as our technologies and everything else is changing out there so almost -- -- part. And I think what we need to do my opinion and you and I agree I'm sure 99% review. As we take that old navy model that founded our modern America for our service we're -- navy through and through and you look at a naval officer and when -- was groomed either through an RTC Europe or worthy of the academy the yard. That guy spends four years in college while -- in college he learns how to be a good sailor. Not an officer and a good sailor. Then once you graduates. Basin through school and the good officer over the next two or three years so before that kid -- Even an instant oratory JG moments hopefully urging energy out of -- That guy's got six years minimum are probably most from eight years under his belt. And and that's a good -- -- -- -- sure you can remember the older officers who made a big impression on -- and you may not electing I mean we have an old battalion chief what -- when in when I -- -- -- company and many years ago. We're what you and firefighters how you know -- had a good home in on -- the stuff. The guy was old he he knew his jab he was a hell of a lot of this stuff that we -- But -- he could control -- to and he was all over that fire. Like I remembered a couple of instances we Rebecca of these places are pretty rotten and he knew exactly who was in -- place where they were located that he would count -- -- they come -- you know and you know he just had their control. One of the things I have in my program is that. -- easily communicate that really can't talk about bread and -- operation. You cannot completely inefficient economy and -- structure fire. When your -- to an SUV -- a block away or half a block away I'm sorry you can't stand. It came to light. I was conducting. -- library and training session with a partner mine and we -- fired back to this place and are you growing. And you. What we did was build a fire pollute the hometown right before and we you know -- -- went. But things started getting bigger and bigger and bigger he committed engine. What happened when -- the engine got in there. And the conditions were pretty tough to write down on the floor that keeps coming -- -- that committed the sexual iron and luckily this was all being video so. You can hear the communications you know about weight in water we need revelation you know you -- an acknowledgment. Well -- officer of -- small department. Was taught to you have to stand one stationary spot where everything was sort of infrastructure the flames -- smoke and everything. He really had no idea what together forgets to you know he couldn't see the fire he couldn't see if there was any change in intensity or the fact that it was -- growing. The smoke is continuing to get darker and -- -- even more. You've got to crews in there to hold -- with a -- learned a hose lines -- moving. The fires that dark. Something's wrong link on right you cannot you cannot put that information together from 1 central location -- one stationary points. And I remember this is what reverts back to you'll chief they would be all that there may be wrong on that building to be watching to movement you know they've been having that communication -- inside. The -- doctor heads inside and the chiefs on all four sides -- exactly -- verbal you know and whose apartments I go to they have 1012 achieves this and went to a the -- eleven guys that we -- -- get enough fires for anybody is they'll send everybody a fifty -- useful radios we always go to the next. -- you are well when of the student universities -- -- there's predicament of going. About community and how we gain experience. Bill Cramer you know doctor Kramer you know wonderful -- -- -- of them and we released in record time. And it -- -- get people all over the world coming -- you know one from Saudi Arabia one degree was served very. He threw that question about how -- experience to build or borrow officers for the future. And you know some departments have the idea that well we have a losing -- situation. Maybe we should bring -- -- officers -- -- let them take over command and so work. Well you know I'm -- not Wendell -- -- I'm sitting in a class there well we -- -- troops there going occupied strips and -- at your stores and so forth. People's livelihoods bingo that and it's also bring in money into the communities and communities -- -- dollars. And I currently in a while ago and it said that you know I think it's war -- To train officers that when it. First of all what that guy gains experience as a -- for the first then become comfortable Walter let -- gains experience and their the company for. Let him see the operations -- handling people's. Let me be -- -- -- which have retreated to the of those. How -- Yeah ago another thing I thought oh yeah yeah. What would you want training guide of the resolution between your -- -- -- fires go and also goes to great artwork here to keep -- you know they're not going there is -- -- of the Johnson that we lost so much better way to do it. So. What I what I try to point out was that you are telling me that we should maybe give this -- officer. This experience of Vernon and -- structure that's what the all of that building comes on the scene. And and it is higher ranking chief officer -- you're telling this property owner. While we're letting you tennis also -- what is a notch or two ago. -- Listen Jeff I'm gonna. Rapid this is well this is Fred Flintstones and I just started Barney Rubble -- you dinosaurs here on the road and -- -- careful there.