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Home>Topics>>Jim McCormack and Jim Crawford interview

Jim McCormack and Jim Crawford interview

Tue, 18 Mar 2008|

At FDIC 2007, Chief Halton talks to two of the most influential instructors in the U.S. fire service, Jim McCormack and Jim Crawford.



-- -- And then today we're very fortunate we're live from FDIC two thousands. And with us today we have two of them. Probably the most influential fire service instructors. In America two guys who dedicated their line is that energy in their passion. Training firefighters a firefighters are safer as it has survived catastrophic events as well as routine events that can quickly turn catastrophic. There hands on firefighters -- blue collar firefighters. But the growth are also both extremely educated men. -- -- looking at every piece of nuance that happens when a firefighter gets control. And -- re -- -- they're also looking at every piece of nuance that occurs when real firefighting. It's being done by real fire fighters and real conditions. We're very very proud very very humbled to be sitting with these two guys. So that through the finest gentlemen you'll ever have the opportunity. You Jim Crawford and Jim McCormick. Jim McCormick by the way is the son -- Eddie McCormick he's also the -- 1007. Thomas Brennan life training achievement award winner get that right the topic and change human award winner for 2007. For his work not only with his company which is that -- Fire department training network but also for the work that he is done here is owned apartment in Indianapolis. To run the entire department through comprehensive program. About what to do when things go wrong. And and Jim took a step further. He made them recreates situations where nothing was going wrong. Because that's when things happen small changes can result catastrophically. Different events. Jimmy knows that better than anybody else -- -- right next on his Jim Crawford. And Jim also has training company. Which is the crime prevention training sessions and names as at all. Training associates group that focuses on -- sixteen guys work with -- secure sixty instructors focused on what happens when somebody calls me. It is not an optimal discuss that -- a little bit. Two guys standing outside. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- That's not rapid intervention these guys talk a little more today about some of the issues that's really want to introduce them. If you -- didn't get good training we clearly monitored the -- If you can't make it out you wanna go to quality realistic. -- -- and relevant training done by some of the best gentleman and some administrators in the world. You can contact Jimmy Crawford you contact Jimmy McCormick and you can't go wrong. So guys welcome to on the road and thank you and congratulations on your reward well -- Well deserved and -- -- and dictionary McCormack. Still runs the fire departments safety officers association. And there's also a charge of running our our our competition here on its. And the diocese though they partly -- -- -- family. McCormick's FBI -- won't understand you can't -- so. Thanks for being here and invest your mom and admiral -- then -- -- -- did -- an -- in the fire service and true gentleman had the opportunity that. -- and several times and he was always gracious to me and actually helped launch my career teaching and at the -- For -- goes from Eddie McCormack got a phone call one day. Or your stuff is gonna happen. And and you're on the road and in his handshake was his word and when the real. -- the real icons -- industry. And countless man. Our best you've been tremendous loss. So talk about the -- you posted here this week -- FDIC and historical first -- what do proper go first couple about the drills that you did how to go and. What we weren't -- we did the rather mentioned -- -- program. Basically we run. Teams. Students through. Set -- drills were. We have a lowering systems still station. Airbag deployment and we do the Pittsburgh room it's a -- event. And now we're trying to get safety calling who are also trying to put the stop -- is on. To force the issue that far for a she should be should be -- rapid. And this students rotate through the through drills and then after the drills we run through -- realistic scenario. Where all the students actually -- taken to a smoke event and -- -- and rescue. Firefighters. How many years you've been teaching. Here here is -- I believe my tenth -- -- It's pretty popular program we've actually had. Repeat students fourth time this this this week so some pretty amazing. Well you know he mentions that when you when you talk about firefighter training especially in the cities of Los. It's not a one shot deal. Those men and women -- come back for four times they have it right. You need to really keep coming back probably four times a year. If you wanna get it done right and -- that was listening heard you say we did -- lowering drill. What do you do that. -- the lower drew relate to impress upon students is how many times you've been -- -- -- for which there will -- stuff. And have a fire fire -- down on the second floor. Your choices are limited him steps to try and drag. You know 23 four effort process steps -- -- times we can throw -- letters on steps that. Realistically it's not going to be possible so we like to train and teach lowering system we can actually -- real quick system and -- -- effort on the ground quickly. And when you see a -- department system. Retraining -- doing an academy drill field generally on the first floor and and a missing all of those subtle nuances that you guys because your focus. And firefighters -- in survival. Are so -- Just don't talk a little bit about the academy that you run and and the classes you read this -- -- and thank you for that thank you for allowing FDIC. To use your facility we really. -- Thanks. Quote what we didn't this week is widgets to the basic basic program. -- at the -- stuff. We hope we never get to that and the only way to do that is to focus on the basics so. We had a set of skills stations we ran through in the morning. Give little lecture was called first to strategy and tactics friends and drug companies so the -- read about a company's -- and we ran through -- hole stretches forcible entry search. Ventilation. Operating goes on under intense conditions and and a little bit rapid intervention and then we -- in and we had live -- after they did all the skills so. Really we feel over eight hours they repeated some pretty important skills at least two times mystery and a little bit repetition. Hopefully it will create -- -- -- instinct. Well when I look at my look at the writ. Stuff that are -- and out comes across and and eventually enough a colleague of two or three -- successes. They come across the wire every month. What what appears to me to be happening is that most of the rid activities that you see generally happened during the initial engine and truck operations -- a couple times a -- -- later on the operation but generally they happen early on that the correct statement. I would say I agree bills -- them and -- at a Domino's in place and if you knock one down early. Everything else falls and you can't control I -- -- -- like for the first time that twenty minutes of the fires this can be -- most Anderson that's really retained should be. Really focusing on all the activities -- And appears to me is. -- -- -- -- Sometimes done very well sometimes done you know use the word lucky. He was -- Evans -- success but the outlook was predicated on the fact at least those guys were aware enough to be there. In your opinions because there was some discussion their -- wasn't working and I find we have policy I think -- is working. What's your opinion on and on the current status of -- America who and where we're going with -- what needs to be done. I would say that. There was some discussion while -- that and what came out of it was there was a short lived and all the training that. That guys went away from residents think it was happening and what it -- an effective. But the reality is that it for right now there's two ways. That people are accepting written training and in all honesty it's basic fire threatening that we -- away from. So -- -- we ride the wave of this training it's making guys more proficient at the basics. And it and it really is keeping -- -- and then when they do get in trouble. Like you said it is not look so it's not me but I think -- is an opportunity in training come together at the right time and I really think that this training is refocusing guys' attention on that that ten minutes -- that first ten minutes of trouble. Do better -- it to the basic skills but they also know that the recipe is. The crew was on. The ability to give them -- -- -- lifeline and then when something does go wrong they thought about that enough. That they actually just react. I agree with we got -- we gotta get back to the basics -- -- so far away from its. You know -- -- find uses does not rocket science you know and the more technical we get with it. Knowledge imagine you know we're this -- start run trouble so we really need to stick with the basics and that's the foundation were written. I agree and we talk about basics remember Tom -- years ago related columns and what's in your pockets. We got your pockets. And and he talked about all the things we don't have workshop -- lines -- whistles are hand tools rope. And everything that Cuba flashlight and extra everything that Tommy thought the door chops everything you want out of your pocket should be bulging with these your lifeline. Actually story we heard from chief -- and Jim and his whole department through the basics. Basic firefighting with an emphasis on safety and survival. Gave everybody hand tools to keep in their pockets. And firefighter and Indianapolis recently self rescued. Avoid becoming a statistic because of that tree. That's a pretty amazing -- that that's the proof right there. That's proof right there that -- live I would have the -- -- and have the opportunity. To know German and take this kind of training I think. You when you talk about. People say Jim McCormick and Jimmy Crawford save lives that's absolutely true they save lives that young man's alive today -- is probably dozens of stories out there. From guys have gone through your training as well Jim. With that training saves -- and -- what you're doing there so. It's also -- I think people need to understand is that these two guys both from schools but there's no competition. Both of them are now working together with fire engineering and FDIC. To try to create. Some kind of standardization style of about the project that we're looking -- Last year Jim I got together here FDIC and no we just start talking about pay when you don't want you know -- you -- in and we we just saw that we're basically done pretty much the same things in it was pretty unique. And I mentioned that -- that I would like to get some -- -- national certification program down on -- -- technician or whatever. And Jim -- -- I was interest and that type of concept also so wouldn't be in and around and refined make the time to see we can make. This work couldn't have also committed to writing a series of articles with our engineering which we hope to -- later compiled some kind of text so that they'll -- attacks Soviet. Some definitive work really the nation's. Either select wanna -- that the nation's two leading experts. It in the field of basics. And rescue what to do when when the basics. You know -- skew and it can happen guys can still do everything right. And so and bad stuff can happen -- tons of hidden dangers out there how we -- looks really great example. Great lieutenant great trainer great officer. The owner of the building takes -- support beam out. We don't know that and down the floor goes and tragically. We -- -- and firefighter Riley and lose their lives. Rescue a very well very organized rescue. Catastrophic it's gonna happen gonna be ready that's the basics. So what else is going on -- for you two guys new departments or any major changes anything happening. -- along like Jim did we just recently Pittsburgh. We we ran the whole department threw us survival -- mentioned training took too much straight to do -- -- It's it's it's nice that to make sure everybody's on the same page there we keep these amendments in the basics and if the -- all on the same page with the basics. As you start run and trouble so. That's what we're we're focusing on. With I would say the -- we just ran. -- 700 guys through a basic program and it takes an enormous amount of time but. It it takes guys committed on the street you know we -- just the guys citizen yesterday but you know those guys it takes them over to people to get it done and to get him on the same page because this is Jim preaches and I know it's gonna take more than when we kind of said earlier we're gonna talk about is to -- to vote thing but. That two people outside won't get it done for people won't get it done it's gonna take teams in multiple teams and if you're not on the same page boy it's gonna be a disaster and we don't I think -- said before some of these successes. This happening and -- sums from -- -- because of the attitude of the five I mean it's just gonna get something done but. There's a lot of times that maybe if we were on the same page it would happen quicker and that's all we're looking -- you know there's not a this window of opportunity -- -- -- -- Shows you know -- story if you guys -- I'm not sure which one of your classes they went through the Tulsa fire department. As we just publish to say -- ahead -- us talking to them. Their first they had experienced their personal and they did okay they rescue began with a realized exactly what -- just said that. It was a smooth as it could have been so they actually came here I'm not sure which -- Chief Clark was -- which ones with the class is the guys attendant. There's second one after going -- the training. Went like clockwork -- you -- that this month so we're going to be look at its -- success down the road why things went right what things went wrong. These two guys -- agreed to help our engineering kind of analyze some of these events come up with some of the the commonalities that make things work some commonalities that make things. More difficulty to work through and we're gonna chided. Keep those coming matches throughout them. Upcoming year keep you posted on how these gentlemen are doing on their articles and make sure we come back to FDIC we hope to let you talk about some things you wrote and and some things you investigated. And any time during the year that that you need to put something out on the area you feel free fire engineering. And FDIC really belongs of our service. And and these guys are great examples and his -- -- this vote motion. You know which are twenty some odd years ago. You know and -- obviously management -- vision. And now he's keeping it going he's bringing and the best and the brightest and and and and partnering. And really that's -- for our services of we're so if our engineering. We have for our job we're so honored to have you. Speaking with us and helping us to supporting our efforts. We can't say enough about the both the we think you're tough you're game and the best in the business and and that's just not come for me the entire advisory board from. From chief received John Norman to John Salt. Ricky last year and everybody in between. Also the same thing you'll find two better hands on guys Johnny O'Connell -- both your praises all the time. And and -- that you don't get higher -- -- he's a guy who he's a guy who understands basics. And when US and whose top shelf. It's McCormick. And it's Crawford and it comes out just Aqua connect New York -- -- so I'm very honored to have you here with us and anything else you wanna cover before we let you guys going to be a catch a plane -- regulate. It's it's just like to our place stick with the basics people when he got to stay trend yet be proficient with all the stuff because 3 o'clock in the morning. You know and made it comes over radio it's like a punch in the face you gotta be ready report on church and would agree with me on that you -- you have to do to pull it training back your head. And -- to be able to perform right then and there. That's that if any worse -- this city. People from all over the world come via. They they sit in class for four hours and hours sixty dollars. And they don't know anybody when it -- they get together and by the end of the day they're working like -- well oiled machine. It says the timing works. -- that speaks for itself so it can happen back home. -- thank you -- thank -- for joining us on the road.

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