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Home>Topics>>Fire Service Court, Part 1

Fire Service Court, Part 1

Mon, 8 Feb 2010|

At FDIC 2009, Chief Bobby Halton talks to fire law experts Chip Comstock, Curt Varone, Brad Pinsky, and John Murphy.



This is probably a lot of it -- hearings FDIC 2009. And I'm here with for a fire injuries. Most favorite people for most prolific writers and probably for the smartest guys that right for us -- fortunately I have to sit on this -- because they're all lawyers. And I don't -- -- -- off my wallet could just disappear. -- Let me introduce some very quickly occur around -- Comstock John Murphy and -- Penske -- -- about all four of these gentlemen is. Not only that it lawyers that -- -- and sensitive by firefighters person and -- -- seconds partners. Current particulars recently gone -- VA. So now we have a lawyer was a former fire chief in that in the NFPA so we've really started to integrate ourselves into these organizations and the activities. We really need to be in and it can't thank you guys -- stockman today. -- all that right fire service court force for. The last five years and now we're gonna do fire service court on the radio on foreign here in dot com radio -- -- I know and most of -- -- opinion down -- weekly or biweekly but that's a good place for questions of firefighters have. You guys are gonna take seriously and -- to -- -- maybe talk about some of the stuff that's happening in our service that affects you -- country. Currently you're just talking about that some stuff we do -- Always notice connection close connection between Fido service and law and this a lot of reasons for that but the bottom the salt that the New Haven case -- thought it was a perfect example you have a case involving firefighters. Going to the US Supreme Court. And it's going to set a precedent one way or the other business that the president. For the rest of the country for the foreseeable future on. Affirmative action and -- scrimmage and. Now what. Here's my thought is that it's OK to talk about is certainly -- you guys are trying to control. Would this affect even mean Kazaa. I've got an opinion like everyone else I wrote I wrote a piece month -- -- go about it -- What what I believe is -- -- Plus what we know there's been discrimination and clearly there has been some areas of the country. Towards women or minorities are -- and whites and and -- you know and where you are. Those Pacific -- should help them concentrate on the people who were disenfranchised intentionally. Not the people who were just you know. -- -- -- By -- -- intense. -- target those who -- but I agree that once you're tired it's a level playing. You know when she didn't think that we need to do more proof when we need to do more -- some areas where people -- it's not of the New York City. If your emotions on her figure volley all. Forget about it you know you can -- and -- had a hard. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Wax poetic here it. Michael -- -- -- -- -- kitchen people who eat different food. A decade let's listen to come out and he's just -- -- You're talking about us about it books or humor books that you need to let go that's the past and -- news -- -- those guys -- product and he's. Please tell you -- -- we welcome and I does the Bronx is Irish land right. -- Leo so those boundaries are gone. The interesting thing about -- -- this -- this test the whole issue deals with this promotional test and the community was trying to. Do the right thing they -- we wanna file followed title seven and make sure that we have a requisite number of of minority candidates. And they didn't know what the test results were but they knew that no minorities would be promoted as a result of this test so just refused to certify the -- And so the court system. And -- -- they're try trying to -- -- -- -- need to discriminate against anybody. Because throughout the -- -- everybody without knowing the results although would have some -- impact on -- candidates. The real question is does doing doing that. Violate -- equal protection clause. And the -- appeals in deciding not to really hear the case in the in the total. All the judges McCorkel and he had a seven to six decision split decision. And they said that the minority the six judges -- This is really important issue we need to address us and ultimately the conscience and -- supreme court's gonna have to decide this case. And it's to me it is a fascinating. Decision it's gonna have impact elegant -- -- across all all types of minority happiness. It's this is a little. A lot of ways missiles and we all grow with -- paralyzed government Osama issues and Boston and -- -- Sample of the way to find out more are -- I mean this arson cases that -- set the standard. For search and seizure. And and clearly standards Americans with disabilities cases the connection between the -- service in most instances always fast. Just like to say up front and some of those gentlemen involved and is well one of them one of our present -- this -- -- it's time felons -- beautiful resentment. And it's not an issue of race these guys -- since principal what they consider to be what's fair and what's what's. Mentioning about that that case -- look at it is the came -- and he took it five it was five hearings. About the validity of the house. And and folks from from. National -- and one of the federal -- came in and say hey this is a pretty good test -- -- professional -- testing service to put the -- together. And and they -- really good job and a lot of the from fires first comments in this is a valid test. On -- and it appears from reading -- opinions that there was also testimony against the tests and it was in -- None of the people testify against the test ever wanted us. Never read it he never studied it that's -- -- issues however congress yeah. It's if it's one of those cases I rates -- what are they doing -- wise or even permitting. People with challenged this almost under you know -- really qualified experts have done their homework. That's your light winds will be challenging -- I think courts and and we his lawyers -- people. He could be diligent -- -- at the outset on that cases like this. If you're gonna come in and testify against the fire service or gets things we do we're stand for that -- of the credentials and background and understanding of what we do. And there are as we although there while there are willing to four feet coming -- -- -- one subject that we have people against those people that's one of the these issues in this case that -- Lost friends and from days ago Austin's case Syracuse nor -- from -- decision. Years ago decades ago neatly in standards. -- number of minorities tend to be -- portion community. The minority population community and now we can't we still have those theatres in place but -- well exceeded. That proportion. We're the number of minorities actually exceeds. -- fire department. Proportion and so now -- not minority. Population -- saying wait a minute. We're being discriminated against in this happens here is you -- the issue is settled and all. But bosses certainly still an issue everywhere these proportions were put in place are now we're on -- reverse for women and minority population has exceeded that. So now what is the reverse discrimination I think we've seen it go into a lot more as well also going to -- you know -- And I think with you guys especially -- we've got a curtain on within -- -- excellent. Legal stuff that I want as a -- as conservative as far what standards really matter and you know we always talk about him here's Anderson. How important they are and one of Israelis and remember that we -- -- court considered the standard of care almost -- various medical terms of our first but you guys haven't -- form. In court so -- -- analysts and vicious online for us you talk about. We are absolutely. Do it on several counts on you always worry fires me gets hurt you know seventeenth does that -- which nobody home not. -- cookies on seventeen yet I keep looking for seventeenth and cases an argument yet you vote. Great piece on -- It was it was. I don't. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- my children. Pieces up on my bulletin board that. That means standard. You know can be used it against someone now and and probably -- -- -- -- question that want -- you guys is what the toolbox. -- not a garage at home you know I was potty -- at -- sort of gut feeling that I don't mind outlines and -- or -- or all my tools wrenches are from the auto auto mechanic. So my toolbox doesn't you know everything in it so I'd get jammed up on the fired rounds just a sudden -- -- commander was not viable just exceptional. -- could a lawyer no disrespect you guys -- bad -- lawyer pretty common scenario -- -- image. You know French division. You know French civilian whatever that was. The -- the big question becomes what would reasonably prudent fire officer replied she wore -- fire and technical advice that. What ultimately it's going to be the jury is gonna posturing that's that's that's one of the beauties but it may also -- -- children actually firefighters. -- and -- put it you know. The same token that you think about the medical profession are doctors on injuries -- I mean that's the thing -- -- juries are asked to -- complicated issues that reason that relate to you know certain professions there -- the old expression I'd rather be. -- yeah. -- other things we talked about today's shift lecture. Would you take a look at the reasonable person standard -- what are we what are we looking and there's no expectation that every -- those rule of law. What if you take a look at doing the right thing reasonable thing the other -- Haters always we're back on Monday morning quarterbacks take a look at what you did wrong. As opposed to what -- -- and I think when things that we see is that can make words are prepared. Good enough to -- then. Or department and its operation because the word doesn't understand -- -- our operations on. So there's been several days. You know force -- reserves and prepare it ourselves interest -- -- were lost because of representation issues. There's. The case. For reasons. Assistant she was connected -- -- hate and the only other hand. I -- take -- flip side if you look at medical malpractice cases doctors usually -- In a reason for that is because people liked -- -- and we doctor. People like the fires were accidentally fire first you talked about that and -- the -- out there of humanity. This fire truck is I think that who is going to be hurt in terms of fire chiefs or those guys who stood there -- -- The guys who just refuse to acknowledge the national standards who refused to it now it shouldn't even exists. The guys who never look at -- report he continue to -- to proceed on as it always -- quite. Clear national standards those are the guys -- and get in trouble and you know it. I don't feel sort. If if if we have to correct the source of we have raised our profession. By cutting out some of them the bottom feeders and in the guys who just refused to become educated become more professional so -- it. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- But I think that's as I said before and fortunately. For some ways for some change that's the only way to. And happen. To people like the person who's at least this much but. Truth type of person who's -- actually -- -- reading what time firing your website and next it was completely you don't have to work. Those people in attendance and my conferences -- conferences there are other overeat and don't worry because you're you're learning. It's people who don't even wanna ask questions don't outlook for you know we really don't like -- knows that -- -- -- at -- -- shouldn't work.

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