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Home>Topics>>Responding to Bomb Threats, Bombings, and Suicide Bombers, Part 4: Post-Detonation Response

Responding to Bomb Threats, Bombings, and Suicide Bombers, Part 4: Post-Detonation Response

Wed, 4 Aug 2010|

This free full-length presentation from the Firefighters Support Foundation provides an overview of explosives and bombs, provides examples of various kinds of each.



In this section of the program only concerned with the bombs -- -- -- Component responding to a -- to. -- -- -- -- -- other aspect of mass casualty incidents that you already probably familiar with things like triage issues and medical issues and building collapse kind of issues. We're also only concern with the initial response. Knock on would be much longer recovery operations would have to occur. And on the slide -- -- -- -- you can see we missed a URL -- real good. Resource for medical responders from the CDC if your medical -- -- medical response should go to this beef from. The main point of this section. And you courtesy of before so port we're gonna keep -- -- on the main point is that this is going to be a very chaotic situation. Lot of faster blowing things are going to be happening in real time -- -- cast. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Not thought through this stuff at a time if you don't have plans in place -- -- -- -- utilities. You wind up failing. Wind or rather people wind -- most likely. They don't need to -- the critical point here is planned this stuff out at a time be prepared went up. We're all prepared for normal things that -- jobs for -- -- You you know you know what do what a structure fire you've been -- before -- -- for. For police officer you know what to do when you have to arrest of one Fella you've trained for that done that before you would never think of doing that without -- -- Because bomb incidents are so common and going to become even more -- if you haven't planned for the kind of eventuality. Your your your -- sticking -- -- and then. It's a good opportunity. 21 gets real -- training. It's a good opportunity to develop ties with its history is really good opportunity to do community outreach there's really no reason not to -- After the call comes in that -- bombs going off and explosions occurred. First you wanna be doing is establishing a system and a command center and we don't know this from names and yes. On these kind of multi agency response kind of event should have worked out at a time who's going to be in charge. And win the command changes made to the agency based on what circumstances. Consider having pre made ID cards made up. Distribute to people show up and can be useful to you. As -- said before. You have all kinds of qualified people office back into the area you may not even happening I'd be public safety personnel. In many people which is the kinds of expertise importantly with that time. You may have construction people showing up that could help you secure this buildings -- doesn't -- farther and if they -- here you might wanna use. But you need to control who goes into what area. So having -- -- ID card. Might be good idea to distribute these people that are useful to allow them and restricted areas in and you consider -- -- industry function to. If you decide. The turning off cell phones and radio is appropriate entries in this incidence. And they're also having younger more fit volunteers -- -- -- Is that maybe what you have to rely on -- if you don't have radios and so. Now we're talking in this program about post detonation response to a bomb. But the call properties -- gonna come and is upon its probably gonna come in as an explosion. This is more or less for routine in most most jurisdictions. So. You may not know which -- responding to -- you may not know that the additional hazards. That a bomb going off indicate its present as far as you know you just responding to some kind of explosion. So consider treating every explosion one has a bomb. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Another thing you can do is to is to consider responding in Beijing. In different areas -- different locations. Every time you gonna call -- you don't necessarily always difficult to the front of the building. If it's if -- ability responded to before you might actually come up to a different interest. This -- you could could -- someone that's trying to plant perhaps secondary device in your staging area or your response area. And invented it not be possible in all facilities at all times but to be -- it is it's it's not a bad idea. Consider sending someone had to do it hasty -- and and staging area for secondary device. Usually you can get. A couple people -- fractured and most of your equipment. And again dates in open areas like fields to the extent possible away from areas would if I can be hidden like. Parking lots. -- areas of deep woods. A large open area can be quickly scanned for devices is -- to respond and stage in. And these kinds of events we have a lot of injured people actually lots of dead people time -- of the times always of the but you're spot on here you're getting people six with medical care is is is really of the -- -- these cases so. -- of the fact that immediate action. Couldn't risk taking is likely to save more alive that'll cost compared to waiting for all your resources to -- staging area before you actually. -- like to work. So consider staging. Your resources in stages as they get there. And you can command post have to -- -- -- -- -- that's usually done very hasty way. And that's fine. Watch that ice yes it's -- the the -- -- not consider sending the resources you have into scooper scoop do it needs to be done. That are waiting for everybody to get there and then going in which he would like to do. Using this strategy. Requires more training and more confident than the normal way of doing things. But these kind of event are reasonably predictable. For most of us so getting kind of training -- these is is worthwhile and something we don't train and and planned for. As we have for now going into the hot zone to rescue people bring back out -- the triage area. Instruct them to look for secondary device this is something that's really -- they can be doing during that. -- time when they're really not do anything -- moving from point to point B that they be trained to do it at a time obviously again talking about the pre planning. These kind of incident -- going to in the us a date load and -- our school and -- kind of techniques. There are some legal issues here that need to be worked out. They need to be worked out at a park are gonna -- -- -- on the -- So get together with -- legal people get together when -- risk manager. Have these kind of policies in place because when you need to do them you need to don't. Again remember to establish a safe perimeter. -- Carter he's going to be larger that you would normally think it would be for a bomb. So -- you establish your command post established staging area medical -- central. Consider the fact that they only to be pretty far away from the its location. And there's another reason. Besides safety that you gonna wanna establish very large perimeter and that -- preserve the out because. After everybody is safe and that building has been secured and now the long drawn out investigation and start. The way we typically think about tremors in this context is that we define the hot zone. As with significant damage or significant risk to exit its own images with the recent -- his. You only want properly train and equip people in that hot zone and only two reasons that they need to be there. The warm zone. Typically defined as one half times in a sense from the -- -- the farthest found fragments. In the warm zone. This is a place obviously is front and there you wanna preserve this this whole area for evidence collection. And you only wanna have it control quarters to the -- -- so what you do that with people. Publishing a you know guiding people coming back and forth -- -- it would take probably -- -- don't have control quarters were the ones because that's where the evidence. The cold -- is out are the ones on -- where he staging areas. All your response are using command center should be. He can -- we start to manage these zones -- to manage control back to them. You need a lot of people start to see where volunteers. Might actually be useful. Once you have these perimeter secured. You -- -- mean the point the perimeter is to control access so you don't want to let anybody leave the scene. Until they've been checked for injuries for one thing because he would have walking wounded people. Or stocks are going to be -- got to get on my family rather than they need to get a check for injuries. -- -- They might be part of the perpetrators. -- they they might be one people that. Made this can happen or they might have some kind of evidence on them the Caribbean and -- kind of evidence that would be useful to investigation. You wanna control ingress and egress from all the zones as -- had and doing this is gonna require a fair -- communication. Communications and -- event particularly in the initial. You moments too too few hours is really gonna be chaotic almost nonexistent some pre planning at a time is gonna be really useful. Having kept me up to you -- of people include ID cards and radios -- -- using. Is probably a good idea. Again having pre made color coded ID cards to give to people to allow them in -- -- -- certain time zones is probably gonna pay dividends. You have qualified volunteers showing up. Do certain kinds of jobs that you want them to do so let them do it didn't schools that need to do -- Gonna talk for second again about secondary and tertiary device. If there's a secondary device an area. It's important have everybody who's working in an area. Looking while they're walking doesn't matter what they're doing when -- paramedics pulled people out of there. -- of their police securing scene with a fire we're humans and structural element or -- suppress fire. While you're doing your job to the extent possible you're not actually doing it need to be -- looking for secondary device because they're getting to be common. Part of the training we don't need to do we do our regular training. Hospital ER. A perverse -- are starting to become common places for secondary devices. And obviously you're your ER -- is going to be overwhelmed. Would -- he's kind of incidents at hospitals for tomorrow's round going to be overwhelmed. We would casualties. So it's a good idea. Send people before you even start shipping casualties out to the arms and someone there ahead of time to scan search -- -- and that facility. For secondary device. Start a lot of people trained people these kind of events I -- -- On the slightly but and other dangers that are present in these kinds of things. Everybody knows what truck known potential building clouds and airborne contaminant and contaminated patience and a kind of thing. Which may -- be thinking about -- our other perpetrators in the area. Perhaps -- waiting to pick off first responders or are other victims. In the secondary way. So when you -- area particularly please make sure you're looking. Make sure sort of just focusing in. And taking everything is happening here. Make sure you got somebody signed look high and Ohio locations and binoculars looking for potential snipers. Also don't assume that -- injured. He's gonna be cooperative you may have some -- you may wind up working on and people who are themselves the terrorists are the criminals. They can have a violent response to the first responders trying to help on that could have all the weapons on and you'd be taken away from so expect that. And make that part of you planning to. Any kind of bombing means of course crime scene. And preserving the evidence is a critical part of the job -- we have everybody's safety. What's important had a bomb and what's useful evidence -- -- not be evident. Primary evidence usually consist of -- are part of the explosive device. We called secondary evidence that includes parts of fragments of an object or structure. That was -- conceded the explosion the second -- some clues about the device and potentially who made it. All kinds of -- -- -- be important investigators to such is the clothing of victims with their alive -- dead. On a white control parameters. And having people who control of congress know what they're doing with clear instructions. It's so important because whatever you -- out of there you lose control. That's very tempted to let some of these things out of there in an injured person -- -- on. Without properly considering. The investigation it's gonna have to happen later you do want an investigation -- -- focused on kept people did. No we're -- on the evidence of the things around. The aftermath made -- house be dangerous so don't pick -- anything even -- potentially suspect it may be. Potential explosive device is a part are explosive elements -- -- Just don't touch anything remotely suspicious just notify the person in charge -- to deal. There's other things that everybody ought to be looking for despondency and do I mean it is a complicated job. In addition to doing the primary job you came here to do. Whether it's some kind command from -- excellent control function -- -- a law enforcement function fire suppression function. Structural function. Medical doesn't matter in addition to doing the job you can you to do. So one -- on open. And look at what's going on around. You want to particularly be looking for potential perpetrators or or their cohorts and so in the area anybody acting oddly. Would be someone that you really want to. Wanna pay some attention -- and try to get information on -- And some bombers have been caught because some alert just noticed that everybody was converging on in explosives who wouldn't happen. And it was -- one guy over there that was walking away. -- -- like but number but it -- description that's really -- the law enforcement vehicles coming or leaving the scene seem out of place. Things -- -- noticed that their -- number of possible. He also want to keep your eyes open north was going around you wanted to just focusing on your job because at these kind of scenes the full of -- dangers. Don't rely on the structural expert. At some sister agency to tell you -- don't want to clutch you keep your eyes open to. And of course is whether -- as well. Anybody working in a post last environment. He should be keenly aware all the -- -- not just a dangerous for the secondary device or -- cost something like that. Remember. That the the terrorist bombings but the threat of terrorist attack and September 11 on the world -- is still Clinton picked people -- time. From injuries diseases that occurred at that time. So there were bombs can -- all -- of toxic chemicals. The environment that was blown out. Could have potential toxic chemicals in it that are now dispersed so fire service obvious you wanna wearing full PP. Law enforcement UMass we don't have quite there a range of PP that are -- -- colleagues do but masks and gloves at a minimum. Extent possible. Hard hat if if you -- access to that steel toed boots are protection and has now -- that's available to. Oh. Bonds can be used yes to disseminate biological toxins are people worry about that. In truth. If bombings -- -- destroyed most of the living talk as it goes off however are very small explosion is something you wanna. Think about -- bomb explosion might be. A bomb that was made to disperse a -- -- chemical weapon. So -- real large explosion. You know you've -- environmental. Can post worry about probably more than biological toxins that are real small one. You -- -- wondered whether I could make a bigger bomb. She brings up a thought you had that maybe there's some kind of toxin has been released. Moving on -- to suicide bomber just a little bit -- -- -- to begin with. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- two -- something that you wear on you you know suicide that perhaps. And -- three is usually something that vehicle borne vehicle borne explosive. The reason -- suicide bombs and suicide bombers are so common across world -- and all that difficult to understand. Is a very effective way to kill people answered in the -- at the very difficult to stop particularly in this country. Given -- and our reluctance to use force against suicide bomber. People usually turn to suicide -- groups would -- -- to suicide bombing as a tactic because other message other methods such as unattended bombs. Are getting more more difficult to -- so when he turned to suicide bombers. A lot of experts are of the opinion that because unintended bombs are so common -- -- -- beacon works so well when US because. They're they're very effective in this country feel that we are gonna be a spate of suicide bombers -- bombings anytime soon. However. Recognize that people commit murder suicides. All the time and we're always reading about a murder suicide in the paper. So. Doing. A murder suicide as a suicide bomber is an all that beautifully. So it's not completely clear that we're not NC suicide -- in this country anytime soon and in any case we need to be prepared for. -- really difficult things we talk -- suicide bombers is that there's no profile for. Suicide bombers. Come and have come in both gender all -- all -- All mail -- all -- of drugs and custom. And all educational notes so it's really hard to try to perform. On the pool that a suicide bomber might come from. Even behavioral cues such as nervousness sweating it -- -- to rely on. The the group that perpetrate these suicide bombers. Are not gonna catch on and started tranquilizer suicide bombers before they go out and now in addition to -- -- -- got to look for people who might be. Really down. Because you and the effect of tranquilizers so it's really difficult. To try to figure out who suicide bombers. In terms of stopping suicide bombing. All the things we talked about before -- regular bombing that happened in private or in public apply to a suicide bomber suicide bombing just as well. What we're gonna be talking about here are what you can do. When the suicide bombers to in the final prep for moving to the target. Once a suicide bomber is on their way to the target. They obviously have the bomb on -- and they have the activation device on them so you can't prevent them from detonating. Strategies to prevent them from detonating and high value target -- is at a at a place a location where there's lots of people. The couple ways to do this one -- -- Prevent him -- actually reaching the target location you can do this if -- and vehicles with barricades and serpentine. And dogs at check point. If there on foot you can do with things like -- honors sniffer dogs security checks does and it's actually a lot of good books written on this subject. No need to to go over everything that those books talk about just do it. Search and get a couple of books and meet them and meet them but -- -- the big strategy you put barriers. Check point. And detection devices between. Your target and where people come through to get to that card. Another strategy is to -- to detect them in route the location. -- if they -- vehicle you can do this with things like inspections at it critical point critical choke point. If there on foot. You can force the pedestrians walk single file a two week serpentine we have trained observers watched them a question that is so you're. High value target a government building. Or or maybe even an event some kind of football -- -- You can force -- to walk single file through a serpentine we have trained people watching them for behavioral signs. -- -- question suspicious looking people. Now we need to -- be and do all this. This is -- -- -- -- that they can't detonate at their preferred location. Hopefully if they do detonate that would detonate allocation has fewer people fewer casualties. And -- you were victims then if -- if you let them get to their intended location. Kinds of things -- observers want to be looking for. In terms of their emotional -- people's emotional states are things like no obvious emotion just. Just sort of dead to the world just walking with no emotion or inappropriate emotional state inappropriate for the circumstance. Of that he can contact their man. Perhaps -- -- might be focused and mutual. They might not respond to authoritative voice commands or salutation from a distance because excellent -- -- target. And they may appear to be -- when these -- things trained observers are are trained to look for. Comes with their parents. -- -- behavior. They may be walking or -- we will be watching with deliberation but not running. They may be winning are anxious or they may not because when we talked about the tranquilizers earlier. And -- mails you may have a pale -- -- recently recently shaved the beard. Again these are the -- things you've trained observers. Are going to be looking for and having trained observers if you just that bombers obviously something that you need to invest in. More -- behaviors that experience has taught us to look for are things like clothing that is is loose -- are. Out of place for the yeah for the season -- a location. Are or actions were carrying a heavy pack. They make you -- hands in their pockets. When a normal person wouldn't under the circumstances -- maybe you can be patting your body just making sure everything's in place and switch is still there. Suicide bombers have been around for a long time. And the groups that fund and deploy these people aren't stupid they they develop countermeasures. For our measures. Very often -- -- create a distraction. -- Professionals attention away from -- suicide bombers detonate so you wanna be. Particularly. Aware the fact that it disturbance -- -- -- a car crash firecrackers going off etc. might be conclusion to get you. To focus over here. The counter to that. Is that if you republics into professional involved in looking for some kind of suspicious activity -- location you keep your focus. Area of responsibility. Something happens over here. That's like -- -- -- that's his area of responsibility. Your your your responsibilities here that it's even more important now because that could be distractions is a market professional. And knows -- their area of responsibility is and -- focus there. You also need to be aware of unlikely or empathetic -- people people in wheelchairs. Babies in strollers. All of these have been used in the path to secretive bomb to a location. So just because someone doesn't look like a likely candidate on. Doesn't absolve you responsibility. Of paying attention to them just like you would anybody else. If -- -- wanted to people suspect that someone might -- suicide bomber. -- value strategy is to minimize the loss of life you can't prevent the loss of life unfortunately. But it strategy now become to minimize it so you wanna direct the potential suicide bombing suspect suicide bomber. Away from the people rich areas that they're headed for. To -- less populated area. And you can do this with things like traffic columns or by re -- Rope lines. Or just with innocent type or verbal commands like -- -- work where we -- line. Could you could you could -- just moved here. And you don't wanna make it progressive movement opposite -- detonate the 21 of essentially possible trying to divert them. These -- have to be thought of ahead of time and pre plan obviously. At that point when you suspect suicide bomber the entire area facility needs to go into pre planned evacuation. This you should obviously be pre -- with the facility he's been pre planned with public safety agencies which should help a method of getting people to start to -- actually. What it's gonna be different but -- talking about protecting government -- We're protecting fans football -- it's gonna be different but we thought about it at a time -- -- plans and procedures in place to do that. And one strategy is to build a relatively safe detonation area. That could be -- as well shielded. By some kind of concrete -- or something try to get the suicide but a suspect who are bomber -- an allocation. So that if they detonate -- detonate there and hopefully they do minimal damage claim a minimum loss of life. If you have more than a suspicion you actually have probable cause we -- -- probable -- We have probable cause to believe someone is a suicide bomber. You both have the legal and moral authority to stop them instantly it's usually involves a shock to bring him we talk about this. Later we -- a lot more detail which of examples later. But probable -- probable cause to believe. Probable cause to believe -- suicide bomber you have the authority. Two to neutralize him right then and there. Some agencies. Don't offer -- some agencies required for officers secure won the image try to neutralize the -- We -- very much again this. This is it's extremely difficult to make this work in practice and you know. You may have. Working agency what it's always four officers available to do this moment I'm not a moment but second's notice. Most of -- stuff. The best thing to do was to give your people the authority to do they would always been completed -- -- -- an imminent threat. To life that they have the authority to shoot. If you have neutralize the -- what you physically neutralize them what you've actually been able to take a shot of the brain dump. Now what you have is an active bomb. There. You need to treat this just like you would any other bomb you to evacuate the scene establish a perimeter call the bond's cool. Not you don't have a suicide -- -- you just have an active bomb. If the bomber is compliant and you choose not to close the distance -- them. You want to want to do in that case control them at a distance with a long gone from behind -- This has happened overseas in some cases -- suicide bombers lost their nerve and wanted to surrender. And you want to good use of these these events and sporting into the suicide -- way out some open -- being forced to you know open up the garment sector. And to be controlled from behind cover. By by trained -- Some suicide bombers aren't even necessarily control of the bomb that they wear on him. Some of them have timing device that have the bombs had to go off at certain times so the bomber the suicide bomber usually isn't the bomb maker. And won't know about these kind of arrangement they're just total to walk over there. And and either wait what's that the bomb off or do something but they don't necessarily know if there's a -- there the looks at the bomb off if they don't. So just because a bomber is down and appears to be dead or otherwise neutralize doesn't mean the bonds inactive. Often times the suicide bomber -- how handler. Handlers someone who watches the event -- suicide bomber approached the target and detonated from a distance from the safe location. Oftentimes this handler can detonate the bomb remotely that ultimately suicide -- lose their nerve. Or gets intercepted or stock or something like that. Therefore neutralizing the suicide bomber doesn't necessarily. Neutralize the -- It's still be set off remotely. This is why using security measures -- -- we just described to re route suspected suicide bombers to. Less populated areas is so important as just critical that bomber don't -- -- -- it won't go off. Part of any. Facility's security measures. For dealings suicide bombers -- the bombers is to have over the -- Being able to watch the area hopefully these snipers in addition to potentially taking out suicide bomber -- off might also be able to get ice on handler. And -- with them to. Once the bomb on suicide bomber has detonated for whatever reason. There are other people -- -- you wanna be -- most likely co conspirator. You wanna go high that is part of your response. When a bomb went -- like that happens while I was off you want people to go high and start looking for co conspirators people involved in this instance. That would be people calmly walking away from the incident -- but I've been -- towards or away from -- -- but not walking calmly away. Anybody videotaping it and and when you -- intercept -- a -- conversation with and in general people whose behavior is uncharacteristic for the context in the place in the event that just happened. Someone should have this responsibility as part of your plan. Bomb goes off someone goes -- some number of people -- -- and start looking at the -- and see what's happening. Pick out the people are acting on usually. -- have been suicide bomb failures that is the bomb itself can go off but the detonator went off the plastic one off. It is there's like this you aren't gonna get the explosion it was intended but you're -- you're -- real loud bang. And you gonna see someone riding around on the ground in a lot of pain. Now the potential bomber is going to be severely injured but it doesn't mean he's not still a threat. They may have a secondary means of a detonating a bomb or their handler. May be able to detonate a bomb so when he if that happens if you see that happen you need to get people on -- fast possibly -- and you probably not going to. -- you -- -- eliminate all loss of life but you may minimize. In terms of personal protection in a post detonation environment suicide bomber it's the same as any other kind of bomb. Just need to be -- the kind of contaminant that maybe in the environment because a bomb went off. Structural danger if you apply to they always did -- just like any other bond posted nation after the idea that -- -- secured. Note however that some suicide bombers had been recruited or -- we recruited because they had to -- infectious disease or effective and -- With some kind of -- one engine before they blew themselves up. So blood borne pathogens become the real issue with a suicide bomber and -- normal PPE. Should address this but. Just be really -- number and be extra careful. Moving on to use of force against suspected suicide bomber. I just as a suicide bomber the rules don't change it's just someone that has -- capability to hurt you. Just like they had a gun we now have a bomb your standard is still probable cause you -- probable cause to believe that someone is. Is imminently going to shoot you you have every right to shoot them first. If you have probable cause to believe the suicide bombers about to blow themselves up -- -- -- The responsibility. As well as the right to shoot them for. Number the universal rule is you're allowed to use deadly force to stop -- -- -- -- -- innocent party in imminent danger of death crippling injury. The other universal of course policy always -- The thing to keep in mind when Hillary's talking about responding to suicide bombers. And -- we want to keep in mind we're talking about using any kind of force that is imminent doesn't mean its happening right now. That's immediate immediate -- is happening right now. Unit means it's about. Imminent means if you wait any longer it'll be too late. The particular danger that place is you particular action that things as you endangerment bomber gun -- -- is irrelevant. -- imminent danger of death a crippling injury you have the read write in this case responsibility. To use force. Because we're talking about potentially. Sneaking up on suspect suicide bomber and shooting them in the -- them. And that the reason for doing that but just finished doing and it's probable cause let's just review of -- briefly. What probable cause actually does apply here because lots of people seem to think that it somehow different in the situation -- not that that's not. Number you have the right to use lethal force. If you have probable cause to believe -- are in imminent danger of death crippling injury or other people are innocent parties are. Probable cause is it's actually reasonable belief. It's more than suspicion. It's more than reasonable suspicion but it's less than absolute certainty. -- probable cause doesn't -- to be absolutely certain. Probable cause means is -- any reasonable person in your position and with your experience. Would believe that this. Person is -- suicide -- Let's drive this home with a couple of scenarios. Scenario one here like 104. You see what clearly appears to be a suicide bomb vest under the close of a person walking towards a large crowd. But for exhibits several of the behavioral cues we discussed earlier -- nervousness no focus -- central. He use deadly force well is -- imminent danger to your third party yeah. We -- persons from they believe that -- justified in using deadly force when -- you have probable cause to believe this is a suicide bomber about to detonate a bomb. -- challenging the suspect at this -- be appropriate -- clearly know if you challenge them at this point all the gonna do is detonate the bomb. Throwing down just a little bit more -- that scenario. Your observation of several unique indicating -- of a suicide bomber would certainly cause a reasonable person to believe. In it that many innocent lives are in imminent danger. That clearly you've you the authority to use deadly force. -- -- charging suspect at that point is clearly inappropriate because you can't do that and safely. And to protect people because -- would just -- as we discussed means no more no more challenge its suspected suicide bomber. You would challenge someone with a -- already pointed -- So in that case shooting them even if you have to come -- from them on the come up to them from behind. Take a -- -- shot at close range would be appropriate. Let's move onto a difference -- area. You get a report that -- may be a white suicide bomber -- -- what person who just who -- bomber in a brown pickup. Wearing a baseball hat would detonate a local court house. You see a pickup and a driver matching the description driving down a country road former -- in the courthouse. Let's look at the factors here is an imminent danger to you with third parties at that point. Now. You're you're report is that when it that -- -- the courthouse he's former counselor. He justified -- deadly force know -- charging suspect -- that would be appropriate. Well sure he's not a target rich environment -- -- country road you know that would be appropriate time to count the suspect got more information. -- -- -- little bit on that scenario the description you've got was prediction there wasn't specific enough to give you probable cause that this. White fur and wearing a baseball cap and pick up truck and how many how many of those -- was a suicide bomber. Are important the -- and upon. I'm also the driver as -- -- four miles away he's not an imminent danger to anybody yet so at that point. Setting up some kind of -- of software -- block would be appropriate thing to do. I'm in no less scenario we didn't address the issue of whether or not the informant -- that information was believable. Informants. In this kind of situation pretty much like the -- any kind of situation in order for you to act on their on their intelligence. The informant telling to you must be reliable given the totality of the circumstances that's the political words of the court. I'm states still use the more restrictive Bible -- spin Alley cat. If you -- -- -- -- Probably slightly looser definition or restriction now apply at your comment mostly reliable given -- the circumstances. Police officer gives you information that you know -- And a good Joe Brown. Finish in should be pickup truck with the -- is coming towards you with a suicide bomb police officers are almost always soon to be reliable. Other informants must pass reliability tests we can discuss liable on the totality of the circumstances. That brings us -- -- entry. Scenario three involving an informant. Informant was an extremely reliable on multiple occasions in the power to you as -- traded a terrorist organization and -- Mary Smith. Will be wearing a suicide -- -- -- her apartment at 3 o'clock. -- walk the five -- at the courthouse from her apartment and detonate herself there. You should bail Mary's apartment -- three clocks -- were an -- overcoat and 68 degree day. She wants to liberally with -- hands in your pocket towards a courthouse with a gaze fixed straight ahead. -- identify yourself caught for her to stop ignores you. What he believes there and and that there's imminent danger to you or or third parties will show you what. Are you justified -- using deadly force at that point yet you are with challenging -- at that point be appropriate. Now the way we just constructed at last -- -- probably be justified in shooting -- Now you can construct an infinite number of areas of an infinite number of variations in -- wants is just like you can't can't. Offer any content of enforcement. And any time you paint a deadly force situation do you support situation. You could always be painted with a million different ways. It was pitch off into a corner. And you can talk about things like that's being suicide bomber. Or it compromise -- on compromise suspect or shades of gray about the probable cause you can go up on for this ad infinitum. -- -- only to a point but the bottom line is that if you have probable cause to believe. That this suicide bombers about to blow him -- herself up you have the right to use deadly force. As with any other kind of PV it's based on its totality of the circumstance is known to the officer at that time -- -- Stan. Tell you the circumstances known to -- off -- at that time. Yeah -- but. If you showed -- a circumstance as it turns out to about suicide bomber you're hero. If you shooter she wasn't. You -- to become a -- that none of us wants to be. One reason every law enforcement needs he needs to have a suicide bomber policy -- -- this issue in place. Probably most agencies don't have that today. But something easy to write -- -- put into Paula. In every agency we do this so the officer doesn't have to rely just on what they think is right and their own sense of personal risk at that point. The -- reliance and Paula. And so that the officer by writing this policy discussing it and -- To the agency. You get give everybody a chance to think these kind of situations to a little bit on their own as the first time they've thought about it don't want to be for real. The other reason we want to have some policy is so that everyone all the officers -- her and -- have a chance to think about -- you -- time. Almost any other kind of deadly force threat that they are likely to face -- might face they've been through in training Britain's kind of scenario. In the past when someone gone gone on someone coming out car comes -- -- -- with a knife they all thought about it that ball we've been through some of those scenarios. Kobe very -- -- officers have thought about what do. In this circumstance -- putting in the policy -- put a doctor give people a chance to think about it and let them know what the rules are. We've been talking about shootings who has a bar or to neutralize them well how do you do that well. If you want to neutralize suicide bomber it means you really have to -- -- them immediately. The only recently her way to do this is with a head shot earlier in the -- between the nose in the eyes or to bring them. Now if you don't have -- -- if you don't have over what typically they can take a shot for you it means that a police -- gonna have to sneak up you conspicuously. Behind a suicide bomber. And take that -- -- shock. Now there's nothing technically difficult about. Coming up on a target or -- and taking a bring New Hampshire. But it's worth running officers through this exercise and some positive. In any case this happens please Turkish -- approach target you know regular ordinary paper target. It's quite as possible draw their weapons and take a contact a recourse to -- bring America. Expect -- queasiness -- officers the first time they do this. Because we are trained to be assassins is and what we're normally trying to do we're trained to react to people trying to kill us you know overcome away. But having them do this exercise accomplished as a bunch of things -- as it -- them. Desensitized. To as much you can to having to do this kind of thing we're doing on the range. And -- it reinforces what the tactic -- should they be -- fortunate to be often -- to the enemy he suicide bomber. Just a couple quick comment on the use of deadly force remembered state law is often more restrictive federal -- who went out of consideration. When you -- your -- and training your people. And ultimately it's gonna be policy that. Controls you people make sure you do the post right -- -- -- postponed. They -- policy and you're training is realistic human kinds of dramatic circumstances that we're talking about. Couple final comments on suicide bombers and your ability to stop them. And the truth is your chance is a detecting or learning about a suicide bomber once they're on their way to the location is is really extremely slim. Physical security -- -- method stop suicide bomber from getting too. Two venues in which they want to detonate is your most likely chance of success informing them. No the and the strategy there is that you gonna. Bring the bomber or direct the bomber get them to a place where they can probably -- kill people would just be a much smaller number of people and in between intended. In terms of really making a dent in suicide bombing want to starts in this country intelligence gathering. Penetration of these groups is the focal point it's where it has to happen. We don't allow ourselves -- do that really setting ourselves up for a lot of talent online. The last section in this program. In your PowerPoint presentation deals with facilities so insecurity -- risk assessment. We've covered a lot of this already in this video program. We're just make that's the conclusion. It's essential. Public safety professionals with fire paramedic. Police wouldn't -- management whatever. That we have plans in place. The most likely facilities within our jurisdictions are areas of responsibility to address it bombing it would be -- suicide bomber. Or our it plain old -- This is what could -- be don't -- of time. By not doing really settings -- up for failure when the event happens. We're just reiterate that it good way to do this without really needing a lot of extra resources. Is to sign. One of those ten most likely facilities. To ten people in your organization or to -- -- organization and to set it the next month and watched it -- to make contact with an outreach to. Building management -- management. In those facilities. Try to saw them on the idea of planning it a little bit of training for their people. And some number of what it would jump on board popular somewhat somewhat doing a lot some brutal little you'll get what you get he -- the effort -- done what -- can. Hopefully when the real thing hats that will pay dividends and can respond. -- -- which -- doing as opposed to trying to make you know. Last -- the last few slides in this presentation direct you to a number of resources and courses that are available some of them completely for free. You can go to -- more prepared to self and your agency more for this kind of event. Strongly encourage you to do that. Bombs suicide -- terrorism criminal bombings. Are kind of the wave of the future and we really need to be prepared for them.

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