Preventing Formation of Anchor Ice and Frazil

Preventing Formation of Anchor Ice and Frazil

Description of the Process of Ice Growth in Streams—

Continuation of the Excerpts from Official Proceedings of the American Water Works Convention at Montreal

THURSDAY, JUNE 24 Morning Session, 9 o’Clock

(Continued from page 494)

(Discussion of Mr. Mueller’s Paper on Standardisation of Brass Goods for Services)

(Mr. Carleton E. Davis, president, left the chair at this point, the chair being taken by Mr. W. S. Cramer.)

ACTING CHAIRMAN Cramer—Gentlemen, you have heard Mr. Mueller’s plea for co-operation and assistance. What is the pleasure of the meeting?

SECRETARY Diven—Mr. Chairman, I might say for Mr. Mueller’s benefit that some of these things are things which have been hoisted on us by some of the manufacturers. I would also say that the users of these goods sometimes see defects or improvements in goods from experience in using them, which the manufacturer does not see nor find. I can appreciate the number of patterns which they have. I was in a hydrant-manufacturing plant where they had seventy-odd patterns for hydrant nozzles. The communication we received from the Brass Foundry Association spoke of the elimination of the five-eighths, Mr. Mueller, instead of three-eighths.

MR. Mueller—They have tried to bring about the elimination of the five-eighths size in the plumbing list, but I have opposed the elimination of the five-eighths size so long as water works people insist on having a five-eighths. If the water works people say they will not permit a five-eighths to go in, why, bless you, we will eliminate the five-eighths.

SECRETARY DIVEN-1 move that we appoint a committee to confer with (he New England Water Works Association and the Brass Foundries Association on this subject.

MR. CHESTER-I second the motion.

MR. Cramer—Gentlemen, you have heard the motion. It is seconded. All in favor of that motion will signify in the usual way. Opposed “No.” Carried.

MR. CHESTER-I have one or two questions which I would like to ask Mr. Mueller.

MR. MUELLER-I will be glad to answer any questions you may ask, If I can.

MR. Chester—The elimination of the rods and squares on the curb key. •

MR. Mueller—Not on the curb key, but on the corporation key,

MR. Chester—Then what provision have you made, or what factor will you need to provide, for a man taking a sixteen-inch Stilson wrench and attaching it to the top of his key in order to force it in farther without distorting that key? You cannot control the length of his wrench, nor the force he puts on it, and if you put the rod and square below the mechanical part of this lock you invite him to attach there. How would you prevent him from distorting that key and getting a leak that might be very embarrassing? Please remember that I am speaking from the standpoint of the operator. Can you explain that to us?

MR. Mueller—In putting the wrench on the side of the corporation cock you are not going to distort it. Of course, if you have a man who will take a great big wrench and put it in the corporation cock and distort it or destroy it, you ought to hit him on the head with the wrench. There are probably ninety-five per cent, of the cocks now made which do not have that square on the smaller sizes.

MR. Chester—They are not as good as the ones which have it.

MR. Mueller—The manufacturers believe that it is not necessary, although, bless you. if you want to adopt a standard with a head there, or a square uniformly all over the United States—amen! Then we will know where we are, but we should not have one here and another one there.

ACTING CHAIRMAN Cramer—Gentlemen, it is nearly time for the noon adjournment, and there may be some of the members who will want to continue the discussion which was under way when the typhoon hit us. Let us finish that up before the adjournment; we have just about time for it.

MR. Chester—I do not want to take up a lot of time, Mr. Chairman, but a gentleman asked me to clear up a statement which he said I did not emphasize enough in selecting these sizes of meters. There are times when you find it necessary to temper the rule of thumb a little. Our rule of thumb as regards the size of the

meters is: one bathroom, nothing less than three-quarters service with a three-quarters pipe. That for a one-bathroom house. For two bathrooms we will have a three-quarters meter; three bathrooms, one inch, and so on; but nothing bigger than two inches, because we do not allow anything bigger than that, and we go up to a ten-bathroom, where you have to apply a diversity of fixtures when you get into the larger houses. We have several with sixteen bathrooms in one district. But the smaller ones will be in use at all times. It goes from three-quarters to five-eighths meter up to two-inch meters for any number of bathrooms. But you must not let the bathrooms govern all the time. You have to consider other fixtures, but no remarks I have made here today apply to commercial or industrial plants. Answering Mr. Smith’s remark regarding testing at the curb where they set everything at the meter box, I will admit that there are a lot of things we cannot do, but that is not one of them.

MR. Sullivan—One of the speakers before the typhoon (as our chairman called it) hit us was speaking about the wonderful service. I did not quite catch what he meant by sixteen apartment houses with sixteen services. He would have to have sixteen boxes on the sidewalk.

MR. Chester—That is optional with the builder of the houses. We say in our rules that if the owner of the building desires that the water department or the company shall deal with the tenants, the department expresses its willingness so to do, provided the owner of the building makes it possible to measure and control separately the services to each occupant of that building, and this is one way of getting at that.

MR. Sullivan—Our practice has been for many years to give one service for one house, and we found it worked very well; but we want to find out who is our customer, the tenant or the landlord. We assume it is the tenant, but we hold the landlord responsible for our water rental. Now, if we cut in to supply each tenant with water, would each tenant pay a special minimum? We believe in equal service with one master meter. On this other method that is suggested here today of putting in’ a shelf and running sixteen meters, sixteen different lines of pipe through the lower apartment to sixteen flats above, there will be sixteen lines of pipe going up the partition. To my mind, I don’t think the landlord would be very keen about having this extra pipe running through the partitions. I think the best way is to have one master meter and let the landlord put in his own meters to his different apartments. To my mind, it is much more simple; the other is too complicated; it complicates the reading; it complicates the cost; it complicates the accounting, etc. As an illustration, we will say we have a connection from a street main into an ordinary sixteenflat house. To pipe that water then into sixteen different apartments through sixteen separate meters is a pretty cumbersome arrangement. To my mind, it could be done better and cheaper by the landlord, if he sees fit. I think that is a pretty wide field from

the universal meter—for a common meter to supply the house with

water. I am not clear in my mind if this is practicable, and for that reason I asked the gentleman the question I did.

MR. Chester—You can, of course, see the fallacy of everything if carried beyond reason. I may say to you that in many of the States you must deal with the consumer, whether that consumer is a tenant or the owner. If it is the tenant, you must deal with

the tenant. That is the law and the rule, and you cannot get

away from it. That does not apply to the multiple flat houses, but this matter could be discussed for a whole day and we would not get anywhere. 1 hat is the law of Pennsylvania and Ohio, and you must follow the law. You can easily take a fouror six-flat house and give a man that privilege if he wants it. Now, take it down to the two-flat house, where you must deal with the tenant. You must say “You are going to build a double house,” and the law of that State says that you will have to put in a double service and deal with the tenant. In that case you can get a deposit from the tenant. There are ways of modifying that thing, and of course you can make almost any statement appear ludicrous if you want to talk about a thirty-six or thirty-eight story building. You can complicate anything beyond reason, but stay down to the sixor eight-flat building. It is being worked out satisfactorily. The revenue is about the same either way, because if you put in a single service all the occupants of that house are on a flat rate, and they are usually using water liberally, and you get a bigger consumption ; but you get a service charge, and the minimum for each one, so far as we can see, just about balances all of them, and we have given them an option to do as they will, and we have had no quarrel over that.

MR. Sullivan—Along that line, it is up to them if they desire the landlord to control the water that is going into the apartment house, they can start any time they want.

ACTING CHAIRMAN Cramer—I would ask all the members to please get back from luncheon promptly at 2 o’clock, as we have a lot of good stuff to thresh out here. It is moved and seconded that we adjourn for lunch. (Carried.)

AFTER RECESS—2 o’Clock P. M.

ACTING CHAIRMAN Cramer—Gentlemen, will you please come to order? The first paper this afternoon will be on the subject of “The Prevention of Water Waste on Railroad,” by Mr. C. R. Knowles. Mr. Knowles.

(NOTE: Excerpts from Mr. Knowles’ paper will be published in a later ISSUE.-EDITOR.)

ACTING CHAIRMAN CRAMER-IS there any discussion on this paper ?

MR. CHARLES Haydock—I think Mr. Knowles has called attention to a very important use of water, which we all have not realized, and that is the uses of the railways of the country. Now, for instance, on the Pennsylvania railroad there are about eighty-seven million gallons of water a day used for locomotive purposes alone. That does not include water which is used for coach washing, wetting down cinders, and sanitary and domestic purposes in general, and I think the quality of that water has not received the attention it warrants, and for that reason I was very glad to hear Mr. Johnson yesterday morning mention the industrial water supply. The value of the supply of pure, soft water for railroad uses is very large because of necessity the steam locomotive operates uneconomically, and the evaporation is rather high. The figures which Mr. Knowles has given would be practically substantiating those on the Pennsylvania railroad. A survey was made last fall to find out how much water the Pennsylvania railroad was using east of Erie. The cost of that survey was about a thousand dollars, and from that the cost was reduced about twenty-seven thousand. That was not a campaign to prevent leakage, but it was a campaign to determine the cost of the railway water supply.

ACTING CHAIRMAN Cramer—If there is no further discussion on Mr. Knowles’ paper, we are now ready to take up the next item, which is a paper on “Ice Formation,” by Mr. John Murphy, of Ottawa.

MR. JOHN Murphy—Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, it is with a very great deal of pleasure that I accepted the opportunity to address your very important organization. My topic today is “Ice,” but chiefly “Anchor Ice” and “Frazil.” These are the same form of ice, in my opinion, but bearing different names on account of its looks or points at which it forms. As I understand it, a great many of you are interested in the study of anchor ice or frazil on account of the difficulties encountered at intakes and sometimes at the pumps, and incidentally in connection with filtration plants. I have a number of lantern slides with me which will make the point I wish to make more clear, and then, with your permission, I will say a few words in connection with some motion pictures which it has been my privilege to have made. These pictures, I may say, are unique. So far as I know, there is nothing like them in any part of the world, and they show very clearly some points which I have been endeavoring to make during some twenty years of my active experience in connection with the operation of hydraulic power plants, but chiefly with hydro-electric plants.

I would be very pleased during the presentation of the lantern slides or the moving pictures to hear from any one of you who may wish to inject a question. As you will realize as soon as the pictures have started, I have no set speech, but I will merely try to add a word or two to the pictures to make them more clear, and you need have no fear of interrupting my remarks. They will, on the other hand, help to make things go.

As you all know, the electrical thawing of water pipes has been carried out successfully-for many years. If my memory serves me rightly, it was in 1898 or ’99 that I actually took part in that work myself at Ottawa. The establishment of a current there usually almost immediately starts the flow of water, showing that in the majority of cases the water which was assumed to have been frozen solid was rather in a state of stagnation, and in my opinion very much resembled frazil or anchor ice as it is usually found in the water.

As you all know, all that is necessary to make water flow in a frozen pipe is to get just sufficient heat applied to any submerged apparatus to keep the temperature of that apparatus high enough so that ice will not stick to it. If you remember that ice will neither form upon nor adhere to anything if the temperature of that thing is one-ten-thousandths of a “degree above the freezing point you will have in mind what I mean.

The secretary has requested me to wait a minute until the meeting in the room adjoining is adjourned, when many of the members will come into this room.

PRESIDENT Davis—While we are waiting for the Bacteriological Section to adjourn I may say that the time limit under which Mr. Gear’s motion was tabled this morning is rapidly expiring, but I feel sure that Mr. Gear will have no objection to extending the time a little until after Mr. Murphy has completed his talk.

MR. Gear—The time was set for 3 o’clock, and it is close to that hour now; but I certainly have no objection to waiting until a few minutes after 3 so that the pictures may be run.

PRESIDENT Davis—Thank you very much, Mr. Gear.

JOHN Murphy—The chairman has requested this meeting to proceed. We will start with the lantern slides if you please.

Mr. Murphy then threw on the screen eighteen lantern slides showing that a small amount of water above freezing point injected into a river will prevent freezing. In one case he cited, at Dixon, 111., an ice company was unable to secure any ice one winter, and to quote Mr. Murphy:

“After investigation it was discovered that a half mile upstream a cement company was depositing a remarkably small amount of water (I will give you the correct figures in a moment) at a low temperature, yet that was sufficient to prevent the harvesting of any ice down below; that is, solid ice. Frazil and anchor ice are really feathery stuff. This is to demonstrate the fact that the runway was idle at the very time when the other half of the river had about a fourteen-inch thickness of ice on the surface. The flow of water in this river was four thousand cubic feet per second. The temperature of the water in the river in the winter time, as in all rivers where ice is forming, was just at the freezing point. The amount of water which was coming over the condensers at the cement mill was eight cubic feet per second, about one-fivehundredth of the amount of water flowing in the river. The temperature of this eight cubic feet per second was about sixty-two degrees Fahrenheit, and yet that small amount of water at a comparatively high temperature was quite sufficient to prevent the ice from forming on nearly half of that river, not only during the whole of one season, but during the whole five seasons while the litigation lasted.

“The comparative amount of warm water coming into the river was one part to five hundred. Doctor Barnes, of McGill University, made some careful measurements of the river out there, and he found the temperature of the water more than half a mile below the cement mill was nearly one-half a degree below the freezing point, notwithstanding the rest of the river was at the freezing point. When the litigation was over the cement company was restrained from introducing any more of its water into the river the harvest ice was restored, and it has been secured every season.

“A tremendous amount of water flows in streams in comparison with the amount of ice forming in the winter. The St. Lawrence River is three thousand feet wide at a given point. In fifty days the ice formed two feet thick, three feet long and three thousand feet wide, or six thousand cubic feet. While this six thousand cubic feet of ice was forming a tremendous amount of water was passing downstream. The average flow of water is two hundred and fifty thousand cubic feet a second, and in winter time usually about two hundred thousand cubic feet.’*

Mr. Murphy showed bv means of slides how anchor ice and frazil formed and how by the introduction of a very small amount of water in temperature above freezing point the water wheels, wheel pits, and pumps, etc., could be prevented from freezing. In conclusion Mr. Murphy said: “Thirty-two degrees Fahrenheit is freezing point. Doctor Barnes, with his electric thermometer, showed that on occasions the temperature is one-one-thousandth or one-ten-thousandth of a degree above or below, and this would make all the difference in the world. This will illustrate the fact that water at thirty-nine degrees Fahrenheit is heavier than at every other temperature. It is said to be 62.4. It is actually 62.88, while at thirty-two degrees it is 62.81. A great many people think it is heavier at thirty-two degrees than at any other, but such is not the case. That is the reason for finding the temperature of the water throughout the moving streams is the same from top to bottom, although many people think it is very much warmer at the bottom than at the top, but “very much” can only be used when you remember that it is only one-one-thousand or one-ten-thousandth of a degree. Gentlemen, have you any questions to ask about the slides?

(To be continued)

The residents of Swedesboro, N. J., have suffered from a shortage of water for a number of months but the completion of new wells and installation of a new pumping outfit, they are assured by the officials of the Woolwich Water Company will provide a plentiful supply.

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