SALT LAKE CITY.

SALT LAKE CITY.

Twenty-fourth Animal Convention of the

International Association of Fire Engineers.

[Special report to FIRE AND WATER.]

The second day’s proceedings of the convention were continued as follows:

THE PRESIDENT: The next thing on the program is Topic No. 9,

The secretary stated that Topic No. 9, had been referred to the same committee to report.

Superintendent Pelletier presented the following:

Report of Committee on Topic No. 9. “Salt Lake City, Utah, August 11, 1896. Mr. President: Your committee appointed to report on Topic No. 9. How can the modern tall buildings be best protected by the fire departmcnt.respectfully suggest that thistopic be referred to the committee of the whole for discussion. Respectfully, J. F. Pelletier, R. J. McConnell, Wni. C. McAfee.”

DISCUSSION.

CHIEF SWINGLY: In reference to the fire department having anything at all to do with protecting tall building in our State, we have no jurisdiction. The law covers that to a great extent in our city; but we have had an ordinance introduced there to prohibit the erection of buildings over 100 feet in height. The ordinance is still pending before our city council. The real estate men’s association of St. Louis seriously object to that ordinance passing. The builders’ union favor its passage. Now all I can say in reference to the subject is that we should hare to fight fires on the top of most all buildings by getting to them from the ladders. After we get above the height of our aerial trucks, the only way we can get there is with the pompier ladder, unless we could ascend the stairways, or elevator on the inside; that’s pretty hard to do sometimes. When the fire is coming out of the windows from the top story, really the only way we can fight it is with the aerial trucks,and prevent the fire from spreading by throwing water on the adjoining buildings. Really I would rather not see the tall buildings go up,

CHIEF STETSON: l don’t know that our fire departments can give them any protection except what they may bring there at the time the call is sounded for the alarm, but 1 believe the people who are erecting those high buildings should prepare the necessary protection themselves, especially in twelve, thirteen and fourteen-story buildings, such as we have in some cities—and we have some buildings of that height in ours. The last fire 1 had in a high building in our city, was twelve stories high. The fire originated on the sixth floor in the freight elevator. The fire went both ways, up and down. When I arrived there the fire was coming out of every window from the basement up. and out through the roof. You all know it is a difficult matter to take lines of hose up on a twelve or even ten-story building to make the connection. There was a building right across the alley,and the first thing I did in that case—the first order—was for one of the company to go on that building, and direct a stream in thewindows. The next order was to take a line up the stairway.and reach the upper stories that way, but they had made an application of water on the fire from the other buildings, and ex tinguished it before the other company got up into the twelfth story with their hose, because in getting up in there, they had to lug the hose up the winding stairs one section at a time, and it consumed a great deal of time, in those high buildings usually they cover a large area, and many of them have one or two stairways, and the fire is likely to occur so that it cutsolf both passage ways. It is well to have a standpipe on the outside, and to my mind it is well to have a standpipe in the stairway to be used by the fire department only,so that they can run a line from the base of the standpipe up. and a man can run up and take the hose, and make the application much quicker than he can log it up stair by stair,up a winding stairway. 1 would instruct the company who first responded after that, and he know* just what to do. If the fire is in a ten or twelve-story building he knows just how he can make the application the quickest; make the connection and turn on the water. One or two men can do that, and others run up and use the hose that is connected with the standpipe. I think every high building, twelve or thirteen stories high—the people who build it should equip it with proper protection.

CHIEF HALE: In our city we have some twelve-story buildings, but very few. There are a great many eight and ninestory buildings. I think the most practical way to protect those buildings on the upper floor is, as Chief Stetson says, to run a standpipe on the outside of the building. We have standpipes running up to the roof. Over the roof we have a hose attachment. We have several buildings in our city with hose attached permanently to the standpipe, hose attached to each floor, and a sleeve built over tip: hose so they are protected from the weather, and we have a shut-off nozzle. I And occasionally we connect our hose with the base of the pipe, and, perhaps, some office boy or tenant from curiosity had opened the valve, and, while we had asection of hose attached to the third or fourth or fifth story, the water might be pouring on the roof before we got up there. They could plan to have a shut-off nozzle and hose attached permanently to the standpipe. An automatic sprinkler is a good thing to have.

I have found good results from it. Tt holds the fire back until we can get to it. Now we have the American Biscuit Company plant in Kansas City, which is a large institution. That building was on fire twice, and it was practically extinguished by the automatic sprinkler. I am satisfied if it hadn’t been for the automatic sprinkler, we should have lost the whole plant. I believe in encouraging anything in that line. Some criticize the automatic sprinkler and say it wouldn’t work or extinguish a fire, but I know from experience that it is worthy of high indorsement, provided it is properly constructed,looked after and kept in order. We had a large furniture factory in our city that took fire, and it was saved by the automatic sprinkler. Many and many a case I could cite to you, where we should have lost the whole plant, if it had not been for the sprinkler system we had. It seems to me in high buildings, the proper way to get water up there is through a standpipe with hose sufficiently long to reach the top floor, and the firemen are not worn out dragging the hose up to the top of the stairway. To get at the front end of a fire is what counts,and f believe that is the most practical way to work, through standpipes. I found it the best way in our city.

Would you have connections on the inside of the building ?

CHIEF HALE: NO sir, our standpipes are run up by balconies, and their must be a railing around the balconies. There is a sleeve, or iron casting arouud the hose, and we get our connection in this way; they have simplv to open the valvewindow, and turn on the water, and then open their shut-off noizle. If the shut-off is closed, it makes no difference if you turn the quarter in the standpipe. Very often we find all the valves open, aad we have to send a man up to turn it off before we can get a good stream below. We have had that trouble at out packing house, etc., where people get out on the buildings, boys, I suppose, and they open the valves, and it is impossible to keep them closed, even by sending a man around. Some curiosity seeker, I suppose, opens it, and when you want to use the pipe you are throwing the water into the wrong story sometimes.

Q. How much hose do you have in this connection ?

CHIEF HALE: We have enough hose to cover the floor of a room 75 or too feet wide and 150 long. They put in probably too feet of hose.

Q. With the pipe attached ?

CHIEF HALF. : Yes, it is attached. It is arranged on a rack, which is the ordinary way, I guess. Now in my department, I use ropes altogether. I don’t like the idea of dragging a hose up a stairway. If the firemen have got to get a line over head, he is supposed to take a rope up and throw it out of the window, and get the hose up that way. It is a cumbersome way to drag a hose up a stairway, and I don’t like the way of doing it. I think it is a back number carrying a hose up the stairway.

By CHIEF HIGGINS : I want to suggest when they have those high buildings, ten, fifteen and twenty-stories, if they could run the elevator, and run the electric plant all night, it would be a great advantage. We have had half a dozen occasions, incase of fires, that, when we got up to the top floor, we have had no light and been all out of wind.

CHIEF MCAFEE: For the benefit of Chief Higgins, I should like to relate an incident that occurred in our city some four or five years ago, during the time I was captain of one of our companies The fire occurred in the sixth story of a building occupied as a wholesale clothing house. The captain of the company first arrived. On his arrival he thought he hadan incipient fire to contend with, and, while the men were laying a line of hose preparatory to taking it up to the sixth floor where the fire was, two of the men were sent up on a passenger elevator intending to get off on the floor below the fire and go up the stairs. By some unaccountable reason they lost control of the elevator and they did not stop until they reached the sixth floor and instead of finding an incipient fire they found the fire had full possession of the room, Which ran from one street to the other, and the smoke was so dense that they were unable to reach the stairway or make the elevator operate in order that they might return to the floor below. They managed to reach the window and remain there as long as possible, until one of them fell back overcome and we recovered his dead body in a short time; the other one climbed out of the window and reached the marble cornice above his head and ciept by his hands to the building adjoining. The elevator is all very well, if somebody will stay there and attend to the elevator and machinery.

CHIEF Dickenson.—Fires will occur in buildings which you cannot get at, even if you have an engine and a hose at every door. There are fires which occur in places so dangerous that men ought not to go and that is what they have a chief for. He must face the danger and he is held accountable for all those things. Most of these ten, twelve and fifteenstory buildings are only lumber yaids anyhow, and you all know it before you go up there.

CHIEF McConnell.—We have some of these high buildings in our city. One large building there covers a square, and is twelve stories high. The standpipe runs clear to the roof with an automatic reel attached to each floor that is to cover that whole floor, also the shut-off nozzles; we also have what we call the underwriter’s pump in that building—it works automatically. The minute they have a fire every man in the building takes hold of that pipe and pulls them out and the automatic pump starts to work and forces the water all over that building and the men can handle the hose on any floor. Then again we have buildings with automatic pumps and, just as soon as the head opens, the pump starts to work itself—we find that system gives great satisfaction.

Q—Do I understand taking the hose off the reel starts the pump?

CHIEF McConnell.—Yes, I say it works automatically.

FORMER CHIEF Johnson.—In regard to fighting fires in modern tall buildings, I recollect at one time asking Chief Swenie, of Chicago, where they have numerous tall buildings, how he would fight a fire in those tall buildings covering very nearly a block and about fifteen stories high. “ To tell you the truth, Johnson,” he said. “ I think we should have to let them hum down the water reach ” That I believe is Mr. Swenie’s experience—those tall buildings are supposed to be fireproof and the only way to reach the top floor is through elevators, to drag a hose up a stairway in a building fifteen or twenty stories high is a hazardous and tiresome thing to do.

I think to-day in New York city and Chicago also they have buildings running twenty-one, twenty-two, and twenty-five stories high. Now the fire department is going to have some trouble in getting water on the top floor of those buildings. The only way as I see in regard to the matter is to take Chief Swenie’s advice, to let the building burn down and let him buy his water. When you get to twenty-five-story buildings’ the firemen isn’t tn itThere is no danger in case the fire originates in any of the offices. Of course, the contents will burn—the smoke takes naturally to the elevator shaft and the people in the upper stories are apt to suffocate before they can get out—they are like a lot of rats in a trap. My friend Mr. Clark too, I think he is up on the twelfth floor of his building—I wouid like to get his experience in regard to fighting fires; but the modern constructed buildings in all our large cities make it a difficult matter for the fire department. The only way to reach that subject is by legislation to restrict the erection of large buildings to ten or twelve stories high.

CHIEF MCCONNELL: I would like to have Chief Bonner, of New York, speak upon this subject—he has more fires to fight in tall buildings than any other man in the United States.

As Chief Bonner was not in the room Superintendent Hull of New York was called upon to present his views upon this topic.

SUPERINTENDENT HULL: During my experience with tall buildings in New York city we have been very fortunate in not having fires above nine or ten stories high, which the department has not been able to cope with so far. I do not know what we should be able to do with a fire that should break out in one of those buildings twenty-three, twenty-four, and twenty-five stories high—there are a number of them in the course of construction now in our city. Chief Bonner has recommended that the owners of the buildings be compelled to afford protection themselves; and I have no doubt it will be acted upoq.

CHIEF PEARSE: Like the gentleman who has preceded me. we also have tall buildings in our city; they also are supplied with both outside and inside standpipes and in nearly all instances we have lines of hose. The greatest trouble we find is in the quality of the hose used. Who knows when he goes into a building whether that hose has been in there one or ten years. You never find out what the condition of the hose is until you go to use it. In very many instances we find the very cheapest quality—the hose is put there in order to meet the requirements of the underwriters. When the firemen turn on the water in many instances as much water comes out through the meshes of the hose as through the pipe, and they are apt to burst just at a critical moment. It seems to me that inspection should be made by some one in authority to compel those people, when the hose is defective, to replace it by a better one. One great trouble we had in a fire there in the Telephone Exchange—the fire was between the roof and the ceiling; we got there very promptly, and went to work on the inside standpipe. The great trouble, however, was that,while we were working up there, some one below who was very officious but probably wanted to do as much good as possible, turned water on the lower floors, and where we were fighting the fire, the water gave out. We had to send a man down to cut the vyater off on the lower-floors. It seems to me that there are almost as many drawbacks in buildings where hose is kept as if there wasn’t any hose there. I would rather rely on a good standpipe, and carry the hose up there, than rely on the hose that we usually find in that class of buildings. I should like to inquire of Chief Hale whether they ever make any inspection of the hose there.

CHIEF HALE: I will say that we do make inspections of the hose just as our men are detailed in districts. Each captain looks over a certain ter: itory, and it is the duty of each to become familiar with the buildings. We have in our city the large Armour packing plant. It is necessary for our men to visit the large packing plant once a week. Men are detailed to go through those buildings, and at the same time they inspect and look after the hose. It’s a good deal’ like winding a watch. If it is not wound it won’t keep time, and you can’t condemn a system of using standpipes and hose, simply because some one puts in a bad hose. I think a standpipe properly put in, properly constructed, and properly looked after, gives good satisfaction. Like everything else, if they put in inferior hose, you are not going to get a good service from it, but where the fire department and the city officials look after such things in those large buildings, I think the standpipe is a good thing; at least it has proved so in bur city, and in New York city. In speaking of Chief Swenie saying, “ Let the fire burn down to you,’, I don’t think any chief in this room stops to consult Chief Swenie or any one else when he is going to a fire. He is going to get to the fire if possible. (Applause.) You might just as well talk of waiting for one of these mountains here to come down to you instead of walking up to it. Firemen are going to get up to the fire, if possible, and they don’t care how high it is. Science is going to bring out new improvements to keep up with the advance of things—with the high buildings, etc. They are putting up electric pumps, and they are being used with much efficiency upon some of the high buildings. We have one on our building that is run by a motor, and we get good water pressure. There is no reason why you cannot get all the water pressure you want. As you build high, other things are coming along to cope with the high buildings, and all that you have to do is to pick them up and make use of them. We are now introducing a system of Excelsior pumps in high buildings, that are run by electric motors, and you can use them at any altitude, and get as good results as if you had a steam fire engine on the building. Now I want to speak of making use of elevators in buildings. I have found it dangerous practice to undertake to do anything with passenger elevators, especially with the fire in the top of the building. Down goes the whole cage and all the machinery—especially if the fire is in the top story. I am too big a coward. I have seen too many of them go down and go crashing through the building. I will take the stairway and get around on the outside. I think the standpipe is a good thing. Of course, it is isn’t a good thing, if you haven’t got a good hose. If you have got a good hose, it is all right.

CHIEF PEARSE: What I had reference to—of course, the standpipe is a good thing; our men are careful, and I am careful about inspection; but the trouble is, when you find a defective hose, to find the proper one to replace it, especially in these hard times. Every one is as economical as he can be, and that’s where the trouble comes in getting good hose.

CHIEF HALE: I want a word here. 1 have found a great deal of trouble in testing, for instance; the underwriters’ inspectors come into the building, and open a valve to see whether there is any water. In our city we have a great pressure. All we have to do is to open a valve at the base down at the curve, and the water comes up the stand-pipe, and, where they have the water constantly in the standpipe, they get a rebate. We find the underwriters will go in, probably the local agent, and say, “ I wonder if there is any water in the hose.” They open the valve, and let out probably a quart of water, and it lies there a long time, and that hose is gone in a short time if you don’t watch it. In our city the inspectors compel them to put on the Excelsior valve to open below without letting water into the hose. All they want is to know whether the pressure is on that pipe, and we find the hose does a good deal better by the use of the valve.

Q. What do you do in the winter time ?

CHIEF HALE: All of our pipes are on the east side of the buildings. We have a great many pipes in our city connected right to the water mains. We have two systems of pipes, the dry (or drive) pipes, and the stand pipe. We have the Chicago system of standpipes.

CHIEF MCCONNELL: The way we test our hose is this: We take the hose to our department, and it is tested for 250 pounds pressure put on with a force pump. We inspect this hose once a year. We take it to the buildings, and, when we inspect it, if it stands 100 pounds, we approve it, if it don’t, we condemn it.

CHIEF STETSON: I think we have fulfilled our duties in this connection as chief engineers when these high buildings are being constructed, usually we are consulted as to the appliances necessary for the protection of those buildings, and I think we are fulfilling our duty when we recommend to those people standpipes and hose of the best kind; then, if they don’t put them there, on account of insufficient funds, it is not particularly our fault. 1 believe it is the duty of every engineer, when those buildings go up, to prevail upon them not to put in cheap hose. Chief Hale spoke of using elevators in high buildings. It is dangerous in most instances, especially if there are but one or two elevators. The building I referred to a while ago where that fire occurred, has seven elevators, and it was necessary for me, with many others in my department to make several trips up to the top floor, and I wished a good many times that I had a balloon to go up.

Q. What time of day was that ?

CHIEF STETSON: It was three o’clock in the morning. It wasa very large building, as 1 say, the Lumber Exchange and Edison building together, and that building, as 1 say, has seven elevators, and not one of them in service. Had there been, we could have put on two sections of hose and gone up; but we had to walk up, and draw the hose up with ropes on the outside.

CHIEF HIGGINS: Did the Lumber Exchange take fire from the adjoining building ?

CHIEF STETSON: NO, not the last time. This was only two months ago. Now, that building has seven elevators, and it is hardly possible for a fire to occur in it that would cut them all off,and ,1 think it is a good plan to suggest to the owners of those high buildings te leave some one in charge so that any of those elevators could be operated, for any one wanting to go up to the top story.

CHIEF DICKENSON: YOU are building these fires in these high buildings. Now you understand tall buildings will draw badly if the wind is that way, heat from the adjoining buildings, and the thing is to put up a man in the high building to jook after it before it takes fire, and the elevators won’t fall down. I had a fire in a five-story building up against a ten. story buildingand the fire was going with the wind into the top of the ten-story building. The casings and things took fire— when they got the building completed they left the paint pots, lumber and soon, allon top of the roof.and it was necessary to get there a little before the fire if you want to put it out. When the elevator service and the electric service is all out at twoorthree o’clock in the morningand there is no motor ser. vice, it is a long way up there. If you want to put out a fire in a ten’or fifteen-story building, that is going to catch from some other building, you want good elevator service.

CHIEF PELLETIER: Chief Stetson spoke of consulting with the owners of the buildings while they were being constructed. I think one of the greatest drawbacks we have to contend with relative to high buildings is the parsimonius nature of the men who constructed them.

In half of the buildings in this country they pay no attentention to the recommendation of the Chief of the fire department. They do not provide well enough for fire protection when building the buildings. In regard to elevators, they are a very good thing sometimes; but I remember a fire a year ago or so in our city. We were fighting the fire in one corner of the building fifty feet from the elevator that I came down on, and just as I stepped out of it the entire shafting fell and ripped the door off; that shows the dangers of elevators. I am not much for using them.

CHIEF RRDELL: I don’t mean to imply that you are wide of the mark; but I think you are placing a responsibility on the fire chiefs that don’t belong to them. In most large cities, you have a building inspector, and you find the fire marshal would be stepping on his toes if he attempted to interfere. They have no jurisdiction in regard to the buildings. This gentleman speaks of the parsimoniousness of the men in building the building. Now he is a philanthropic man, building that building for the good of his town. My experience has been on the appliances put in. I wouldn’t only say as regards high buildings, but as regards a majority of buildings, they have been put in for the one purpose, and that is to lessen the rates of insurance. Aside from that theyjpay no attention to your talk about your hose and standpipes. I have found hose lying on the floor squirting water where you didn’t want it; I have found it where they run out their hose and some one puts a knot in it just for fun. They buy cheap material, simply to comply with the ordinance of their town. The fire marshal can go there, and make all recommendations, just as courteously and gentlemanly as he knows how “ Yes it is very nice, very nice ’’—and he can go back again, and, unless you have a positive ordinance that compels him to do it, that is all there is to it—he wouldn’t obey them.

MR. CLARK: I have been referred to as being one of the sky-scrapers of New York, by Chief Johnson. I am on the twelfth floor of a building where I look down q6 feet to the roof of the building next to me, but we have inside standpipes in that building or rather, a standpipe, and It is supplied by a tank on the roof. There is a connection on every floor with a line of hose with norxies, and with the majorityof skyscraping buildings that we have down town that is the way they are cquip|>ed inside. Up in the dry goods districts,where there are five and six-story buildings, they have outside standpipes that can be connected on the outside. Then the tanks on these buildings down town are kept constantly filled by pumps connected with the engine room, that supply power for the elevators. All these buildings, of course, have elevators, and these tanks arc kept constantly filled, for the reason that the occupants on the upper stones have to use the water for washing, etc., and, therefore, it Is absolutely necessary that those tanks should be kept filled, and the water is .then ready in case of fire. As to elevator arrangement, 1 would say, I asked Chief Swenie the same question, I think, three years ago, when I dropped into Chicago just as an alarm came in, of a fire on the top floor of a fourteen-story building, right opposite the city halt. I found the elevator was running there. A man got there and went up on the elevator with a rope. It was a building open on the inside. They threw the rope down into the opening, and got their hose up that way, and put the fire out on the fourteenth floor and Chief Swenie told me that an ordinance in that city compelled every one of theownersof the tall buildings to keep the elevators and the electric lights constantly in service.

CHIEF HESTON: At the Fourteenth street station, Philadelphia, we have a building nine stories high. We have two elevators running at night, and a man detailed to stay in that elevator. Possibly he may have to run more than two or three trips in the night, but he is there all the same, and the lights are burning all night. In the event of a fire alarm, the fire brigade carry the hose up that elevator. It is the man’s duty to be there from six in the evening to six in the morning.

CHIEF RRDELL: I would like to put a question to this convention. I would like to ask il if it is the consensus of opinion of this convention that tanks are the proper thing to the root of a building or even inside. I think statistics will bear out the remark that they have killed more firemen than they have saved buildings. Keferiing to the late catastrophe in New York, where the tank came down, the results were very fatal, I happened to be under a Link in Chicago, and the tank came down and brought a good portion of the building with it. I would like to get the opinion of this convention whether they think it is advisable to have tanks in buildings, or on the roof ?

CHIEF DICKINSON: I am in favor of tanks, but I want them in the cellar. Put 250 pounds on the tank and build them strong enough to hold it, and that will force your water up. All through this country tanks have come down and torn the buildings down; and we can put that pressure in the cellar and get just as good results.

CHIEF HALE: I don’t agree with the gentleman on leaving the tank In the basement of the building. Now in a well constructed building, take the Grinnell sprinkling system, and they place the tank on the corner of the building, and with a high beam to carry part of the way to that tank. I never have known in my experience of a tank falling in that condition. It is certainly a great thing to have a gravity pressure over the fire. When the tank is in the basement, you have no water on the top of the building. By the time the tank is going to fall there are not going to be any firemen in that building. I think where tanks are put up properly, as they are now introducing the Grinnell sprinkling system, there is no danger.

THE PRESIDENT: What is the wish of the convention in regard to topic No. 9?

It was moved that it be received and spread upon the proceedings of the convention. Carried.

CHIEF HIGGINS: The committee on exhibits would like the convention to meet at 2.30 o’clock to look over the exhibits, and if any of the exhibitors want to make any statement in regard to the qualities of their wares over others, there will be so time taken up with the convention—the convention can go on with the regular business and then adjourn to look over the exhibits. Carried.

AN INVITATION TO TARE CITY.

CHIEF DEVINE1 have a communication which I wish to read, which has been handed to me by the chief of Park City. “Park City, Utah, August 10, 1896. To the fire chiefs in convention assembled, Salt Lake City, Utah.

The citizens and mine owners of Park City, through the chief of their fire department, Mr. II. M. Pape, extend a cordial invitation to the delegates to the Twenty-fourth Annual Convention of the Fire Chiefs of America, and their friends, to visit Park City, and the famous mines in this city, the time for such a visit to be determined by the delegates. Those accepting the invitation will kindly hand their names to the secretary in order that all may be provided for.

CHIEF DEVINE: 1 desire to say that in explanation of this invitation that we cannot determine upon any time until the day after to-morrow, as we have a program for part of to-morrow, and, of course, it is the desire of our Park City freindx, as they are co-operating w ith us, not to interfere with that program. This trip to Park City is going to take a day, It U a trip across the mountains over a narrow gauge road, and k is very necessary for the people extending the invitation to know about the number going, in order to have the necessary cars and necessary accommodations to take them.

I know it is the wish ol the people of Park City—-and we all wish that you should take this trip. It is a very pleasant ride, and it will be a great treat for the people to visit the mines of Park City, the greatest silver-producing mines in the world, and which contain some of the finest machinery that has ever been put in any place in the world. I would suggest that all those desiring to take that trip should hand in their names this afternoon, so as to know the number that will accept the invitation.

CHIEF BROOKS: I move that the invitation be accepted with the proviso that we get back for the special train in the evening. Carried.

THE SECRETARY: Topics 7 and 8 have been left over to the next executive committee.

The secretary then read

TOPIC NO. to.

“I-ocal fire insurance agents. His relative position to the chief of the fire department.” J. A. Crawford, chief fire department, Benton Harbor, Michigan.

Chief Dickenson moved that the topic be accepted and spread upon the minutes. Carried.

DISCUSSION ON TOPIC NO. 10 (Continued)

CHIEF SWINGLEY; I think the underwriters and the fire chiefs ought to work in conjunction.and I think they are more interested in our welfare or rather in our actions, than any other individuals, and I think in St. I-ouis they have taken a great interest in helping us in the inspection .of buildings and in the removal of things that would cause fire. For instance, they report a building which we don’t know about and we assist them in the inspection of buildings in their respective districts. The firemen go through the buildings of any size and importance once a month. We report all things to the chief inspector of the underwriters in St. I-ouis that we find out of order Or anything that we think would cause fire and they assist tis to remedy anything of that kind. I think it all important for the chiefs of the fire department and the underwriters of their respective cities to work in harmony together.

CHIEF PEARSE: In our city we have four inspectors whose duties are to examine all premises throughout the city. We very frequently run across some who have a fine store and a nice place and ail that, but a regular fire trap. We report them to the authorities. We get after those fellows and if we cannot do anything else we bring them into court. If I cannot do anything in the police court I go after the insurance men, who will tell him that if he doesn’t clean up he will raise his risk. Touch a fellow’s pocket book i or 2 per cent, and he will find a way of cleaning up very easily. One unscrupulous agent in a city can do a great deal of harm; all he works for is the amount of policies he can write and the number of premiums he can collect. It is simply a question of how much insurance a man should be allowed to carry—that is something that should be taken up. We can do our part as far as looking after the buildings and keeping them dean— but we cannot keep the local agent clean, that is one great trouble.

CHIEF HEINMILLER: The board of underwriters in my town have an inspector who fixes all rate for that board. The city is divided up into districts and those districts are inspected every Friday morning. The captains of the companies go out with a ladder and go through all the large business houses and factories from garret to cellar, and where they find anything that is not in proper shape they call up the proprietor of the store or whatever the place is called, and call his attention to it. When they go around again and find it is not attended to, they report it to headquarters and I then go there or send one of the assistant chiefs there, and, if it is not attended to, then I usually go after the inspector of insurance who will get after these people and simply say to the proprietor or the owner of the building, “I will taise the rates on you and also on the occupants ot the building.” We usually get them to clean up, and in that way a great many fires are avoided.

SUPERINTENDENT PELLETIER : We have in our city a board of underwriters; also an inspector for the city, whose powers are governed by a city ordinance. At the time that ordinance was passed, the board of underwriters took a great deal of interest in the matter; it confers upon him a great deal of power. They cannot turn on an arc light or an incandescent light until they have first received a certificate from the inspector—they won’t furnish the lights until they have a certificate from him. We find in our city that since that has been inaugurated it has cut down losses a very large per ceDt. It is an excellent thing. It also gives power to the inspector to enforce any and all ordinances relative to fires or any bad risks of that kind. You will find it an excellent thing.

CHIEF HALE : I don’t think we have got right to the point here. I claim there is not a chief engineer in this room but does fight a great many fires the underwriters and local agents pay premiums on. Many of the local agents in our cities are very greedy to make money; they don’t care anything about the company; they are after the premium. I know in our city we have a great many fires that are paid for by the insurance companies, The agent will go to a man and will say : ” How much insurance do you carry on your stock ?” He will reply: “Well, I havegot about $600.” The agent will say: “You ought to have more insurance; we will write you $500.” When he goes home he talks the matter over with his wife, and the result is he takes out $500 additional insurance. The impression is left with a great many people that, if tney burn out, they get the full face of the policy. They don’t understand the adjuster is coming around with a proof of loss, and cutting them down to a nominal sum. When I catch one of those fires I go right up to the board of underwriters and talk to them. I don’t allow them to come up and kick about the fire-loss. 1 know in my town they have actually gone and paid a premium to the man that had set the place on fire. If the insurance company would weed out that class of local agents that are going round paying for fires, the losses in the United States would be much less, in my estimation.

CHIEF I’EARSE : A number of firebugs came to Denver four or five weeks ago—a number of them were imported from Cincinnati. When they came into Denver they would goto certain parties, most of their kind, their name always winds up with a “ y ’’—they go to him and say, “ You are not doing business enough here as you ought, I will burn your store down and we will whack up.” They succeeded in burning down seven or eight stores and some fora sum as low as $240. Some furniture in the building was insured for that amount and before the fire took place they took everything out with the exception of a few old chairs. Of course, the insurance companies paid them—they have caused a great deal of trouble. The next thing is now to convict those fellows. I do not think there is a State in the Union where the laws will convict an incendiary unless he is caught in the act, although those fellows were convicted on their own testimony, one of them turning State’s evidence.

SUPERINTENDENT PELLETIER: I feel a great deal like Chief Pearse, “ It is a poor rule that won’t work both ways.” I claim that open insurance causes more fires than anything else in the United States, How can we fight it? We can fight it by having legislation upon it—make them pay the full face of the policy. I claim that when a man goes to an insurance agent, whether he be a bona-fide agent or an irtesponsible agent, and asks for $500 more insurance than he has stock, right then and there that man knows that he is not right in his heart. When he does that, he means to burn up—that is what he means. Now, then we talk about laws being passed to protect both sides. There should be a law passed by the legislature that when a man applies for more insurance than he has stock, he should become a criminal. There are two sides to this question; but the insurance companies should be protected. Now, a great many of the insurance companies we condemn—I have myself condemned the special agents and told them so. A man comes to the local agent, he wants a thousand dollars insurance. The local agent writes the policy and sends it to the home office—before the home office has had a chance to cancel it, if they do know the man’s reputation, the fellow burns out. They send out their special agents, some of whom represent three or four States—and in travelling through the country the company has no chance to find out anything about the man’s character—and it may be six months before the company gets an opportunity to condemn the risk. Legislation is what we want on this question and it is hard to get. It is a very hard matter for individuals to do away with over insurance and protect our community, assist the fire department and reduce our losses.

CHIEF HIGGINS: This question is one that interests a great deal of the working capital of the country. We know that it is to the interest of the fire department to keep down the losses in the city—if there is proper standard and I believe it is true of all that their labors bring about good retults—that being the case, while they have the welfare of the city at heart and the saving of so much working capital,they ought to be assisted by the men who pay the individuals for the loses. Now in regard to the board of underwriters, they ought to know their own business—how buildings are being constructed in the different cities, etc. Now the home office never loses any money. Why? Simply because, when a man comes in and asks for a risk, they generally pick up their little map and say “You live in such and such a ward, or such and such a street, is it tin roof, shingle roof, or someting of that kind? How much do you want?” Instead of the home company writing the policy then and there, the agent says, “You come in tomorrow, and we will look after it.” He goes out and examines that risk and he says to theman when he calls, “1 cannot write you that much—I will write you so much. The risk is too big.” He takes what he can get and goes away. But the broker comes up and says: “How much are you carrying? You had better let me write you a policy for $5,000 or $10,. 000.” He will write him for whatever amount he wants to pay for. He pays his money, takes his policy and puts it in his pocket. He fires that building directly or indirectly—he probably may be ignorant of it. He produces a good inventory and prepares himself for an emergency. He is a sharp fellow. The result is the fire will get a start and the company is called upon to pay the loss. When it calls him down for it he condemns the fire department—if the fire department had been on hand the loss would not have been over $100. The fire department has to take it all. If the foreign companies and ail the other companies, instead of paying commissions, would employ a competent man that they can rely upon and pay him a salary, that men would in duty bound look after every risk that he wrote, and his ambition would be to make money for his company. He would get a stated salary and he would not be making an effort to write this.that, and the other. It is the brokers, gentlemen, that we want to reach, and we want the insurance agent to help us to reach them. It is our duty to help them and we want them to do something to help us. There are certain men that handle that class ol insurance and there are a many good agents that won’t touch it at all.

I had a fire a short time ago in a three-story building. The heat was intense. After I got through I went around looking for the cause. I found a man kneeling down on the floor—it was the man that insured the party. I went over to him and asked him what he was doing there and he said I am looking for the—?—he insured it for more than it was worth. And that was an honest man. He knew when he went in there that he had written that man for more than he was entitled to. I asked him, “Did you write this risk?” He said, “Yes; for $800.” I said, “Where is the $3oo worth?” With the class of furniture that he had and the room that he had you couldn’t store $800 worth of furniture from the floor to the ceiling and pack it in. Still he was an honest agent, Those are the men the fire departments have to contend with. If each city would insure its own property and collect its own insurance as they collect their taxes and water rates—I will guarantee that any city doing this and having proper inspection cf buildings and proper risks, will have the best paid fire department in this countryout of the premiums. Your politics won’t stand in the road when the people see they are being benefited and when you reduce their taxation—that is the standard. Now in my city for the past ten years the insurance companies have made over $100,000 a year clean profit and it was pretty good rates. Why can’t the city conduct this insurance businessIt could make it equally profitable—the thing will work some day. but there are so many interests that are affected that nobody wants to move in the matter. Still, it is coming, if the insurance companies do not work with the fire department. Applause )

FORMER CHIEF JOHNSON: I hardly know what to advance —the ground seems to be pretty well gone over and very ably. This system of over insurance tends to cause a great many incendiary fires throughout the country. You cannot always pick up honest people. In every walk of life you will find dishonest persons working against their own interests and the interests of the citizens generally. It is my duty, however, to visit every city to which I am assigned throughout the United States. My position is very often misconstrued by the chiefs also of fire and water departments; but my mission really is to benefit the fire service, also the water and fire departments. I have some little knowledge and experience in regard to both services. I visit a city and obtain information in regard to the fire departments and note their deficiencies; the same with the water service—to a certain extent the cities are rated I might say from reports of mine. I wish to impress upon the chiefs present and,of course,

I would like to be acquainted with all the new ones coming in, where there may be any deficiency about the fire and water service it is my province to find it out and use mv influence with the National Board and local inspectors and the city authorities to bring about certain reforms. Where a first-class fire department exists, rates are reduced to a certain extent and to a great extent, you might say. But, as I said before, my duties are very often misconstrued. Now, if I find a deficiency. whether it existed for some time back or whether it still exists under the present government, I would like to be informed of it. I know of a number of cases where influence has been brought to bear upon the local agents and also upon the local board to bring about this matter, of reform in the fire service so as to instruct the chief in his department, I don’t care whether these recommendations have been advocated in the previous administration or are still being advocated. In regard to private water companies I have had a little experience. In a great many small towns throughout the country private water companies exist; hydrants, pumps, and fire service,and all this cost money, and, of course, the water companies wish to make as much out of it as possible. But I find very often in very poor communities they cannot pay much for the hydrants, I visited one city in my State, and there was but one hydrant in the place, and that belonged to a water company, and the city council was hanging back to find out how much they could obtain hydrants for—whichever company advanced the best rates they accepted their hydrants at a rental of $18 per year, but there are other cities where private water companies exist whose rates for hydrants are from $50 to $80 a year. Now when small cities throughout the country, as you have often noticed in suburban sections, especially manufactories and other dangerous places, have no hydrant service of any account, the council knows of this deficiency and yet they lack the funds to provide them and have not the proper protection for the city. Inspeaking of local agentsand building inspectors, I find in some cities they have first-class building laws, for instance in my friend Burke’s city, (Memphis), they have first-class building laws. The city is divided up into districts and his own men in the fire service inspect these buildings, and their reports are filed, and the general reports are printed. That building law is a very important subject and, if we could familiarize the firemen with the nature of the buildings in their district, it would be of great benefit to the department and to the insurance men. Then again, in the case of fire escapes on large hotels—I guess we all know the benefit of fire escapes upon those buildings used by the fire department—a man has got to get to a ladder—he has got his platform there to stand on. In many cities I find a lack of fire service of that nature; you will find six or seven-story buildings adjoining old structures of frame stabling and buildings ot that nature, and, when they catch fire, the buildings go. I think this is a part that is not properly looked after. I think I have covered the field pretty well; but, as I say, 1 would like the co-operation of all the chiefs throughout the country. I know that in the case where the:r own cities have not the money to expend in proper fire service, when there are appropriations made, the fire department is about the last one to receive recognition.

CHIEF LEMOIN: I heartily indorse all that has been said. In my city I have an arrangement wilh the local agents where, if they have a risk on a building and discover that itisdangerous, they notify me and I call on the proprietor or owner of the building and request him to remove the difficulty—it may be telephone wires, electric light wires, r anything that is Uable to engender fire, and most fire departments will be only too glad to remove those things or cause them to be removed, and I very seldom fail to do it. I think the citizens and members of the fire department ought to work in harmony with the local agent.

CHIEF REDELI.: AS the local insurance agent is not here I wish to make a little illustration. He has got to work for his living. Last week we had a fire in one of our buildings, and we succeeded in putting it out. I reported it to the agent of the company. The next morning he came down and said, “John, I am very much obliged to you. That man had a $900 policy and he wanted to make a settlement right away and he settled for $250.” The agent was very glad to do this, because taking it into court would have made it expensive, so he thanked me for putting out the fire and for the man setling it.

On motion of Chief Dickenson the topic was accepted and spread upon the minutes.

CHIEF KNOFFLOCK’S GREETINGS,

The secretary read a telegram received from Chief Knofflock, Mansfield, Ohio. 12.58 p. m., August 10, 1896.

FROM CHIEF KNOFFI.OCK, Mansfield, Ohio, August 10, Frank Roulett, Pres. International Ass’n Fire Engineers.

I am with you in thoughts to-day. Regards to all. George Knofilock.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

Tuesday, August it, 1896. Convention was called to order at 4:30 by President Roulette.

CHIEF PAIGE submitted his paper on

TOPIC NO. 3.

“ The necessity of fire departments adapting themselves to the new order of things—high buildings, all glass and no partition walls, large floor space demanded by the present way of conducting business, over-head wires, all machinery that comes in contact with them should be ground , d in construction, more effective chemical engines, more force,larger capacity for inside work.”

CHIEF PAIGE: I feel some delicacy in attempting to treat so momentous a question before a gathering of men, many of whom have had far greater experience in this line than myself. It goes without saying that fireproof buildings are no longer to be looked for, or possible, when used for mercantile pursuits. For some uses such buildings may yet be built, but their surroundings will very likely make nugatory all their fireproof qualities. Mercantile men demand great floor space and, in order to give them that, buildings are now built of iron and glass, with no interior and no exterior walls, and, when occupied, are easier destroyed than anv more heavily constructed wooden building would be. This being the case should we not bend all our energies to devising machiney and methods to extinguish fires in the new order of building, and abandon the effort to compel by legislation or otherwise our attempts to cause fireproof construction, and if so, what, if anything,can we do? As our streets are growing better every day, it seems to me that the old and cumbersome machinery should be discarded and lighter machinery introduced. As time is everything, we should double and treble our fire alarm service. Portable watertowers and standpipes, with ladders attached to buildings of three or more stories, should take the place of aerial ladders. Fire hose should not exceed in weight forty pounds to the length of 50 feet. It will stand all the pressure necessary and will last longer than 80 pound hose. The same number of men will do twice the work with light hose than they can with heavy hose, and it is much easier cared for. Play-pipes should have tips 12 inches long, straight and turned down to not more than 1 1-2 inches in diameter, to give the firemen a chance to grasp it firmly where he can handle it the best. A set of nozzles should be carried by some one provided for the purpose to the pipemen and supplied to them as circumstances require. If the fire is inflammable merchandise, that a spray nozzle is effective. If a solid substance is on fire, then a solid stream, in order to facilitate the work of the pipemen, all shut-offs should be in the hub of the pipe, tips should be kept free from heavy protuberances. All movable fire apparatus that can be extended upwards should be, when constructed, well grounded with copper wire running from the hub to the tire on the wheel to prevent shocks from overhead wires. It seems to be of little use to kick against the wires; they put them up instead of taking them down. Inside wires should always be placed in plain sight in some sort of tubing, and never be allowed to run beneath floors or above ceilings or inside walls. Every appliance for the protection of firemen against smoke should be given a fair trial until some device is invented—that which is not cumbersome is perfect. Then there should be a corps of smoke firemen attached to every department fully equipped to do inside work when they arrive at the fire. These men should be small of stature, young, and carefully examined as to their ability to stand smoke, and as to their nerve when called upon to perform dangerous duty. Tall building should have a fire elevator so arranged that fire could be fought from it in the upper stories. The first four or five stories of the elevator to be fire walls, with no openings except the entrance at small cage stand inside the bottom, and to be used by firemen only, and the top fire-proof with silver crop with fire proof top. The chemical engine-should be given a better chance. Our greatest losses are by water, When you just think that an ordinary fire engine can pump over two tons of water per minute into a building, ami that often more than a dozen engines arc pumping water in the same place, one may well be appalled by the loss from water. It takes great quantities of water to reduce heat to a temperature that will cause fire to burn, and, until you have so reduced the temperature, you cannot extinguish the fire. Now the gas from a chemical extinguishes a fire without the necessity of lowering the temperature. Then why not try the experiment of having a larger number of chemical engines at a fire than steamers, and instead of abandoning the chemical on the first skirmish line, bring out twenty more chemicals than you do of steamers, and extinguish the fire without loss by water. 1 tried it twice with astopishing success. I have two Bo-gatlon double tank chemicals, with one hose connection to each machine, and I always use one tank to hold the fire until I could get the water department into service, and if I have not extinguished the fire I gave it the water. I rigged over my machine so that I had four streams and pitched in with both machines; and in the two cases referred to, any one would have been justified in using water; but I chanced it and made a success of it. These arc the only times that I have had a chance to try the experiment; but I am almost persuaded that, if I had three more chemical engines, a fire would have to get a very great headway before I should be compelled to use water. Put this arm of the service in charge of the smoke brigade. When I spoke at Augusta 1 did not intend to express more than my opinion that legislation upon the subject of fireproof buildings was useless, as a mercantile building of to-day cannot be fireproof when occupied. I do not think that what I have said in connection of much value, as nearly, if not all my suggestions are already adopted as far as is possible for chiefs to get their cities to bear the expense.

THE PRESIDENT: YOU have heard the able report by Chief Paige on Topic No. 3. It is a very important tcpic. It is moved and seconded that the topic be received and placed upon the minutes. Carried.

THE PRESIDENT: The next topic was No. tl, for which there w*s no assignment.

TOPIC NO. it.

“ The benefit of drill schools for firemen.”

CHIEF PEARRK: I would like to hear from Chief Bonner on that subject, as he has one of the most extensive drill schools in operation.

Chief Bonner, however, was absent.

CHIEF DICKENSON: I haven’t anything to say on the subject. 1 know it is of benefit to the department to have drill schools. We have them In our department. Chief KcdcH, of Omaha, ought to do the best on that subject—he has been in the habit of teaching a great many of the chiefs throughout the country.

CHIEF REDEI.L: I would rather hear from some of the others—I would rather listen to some of the others with your kind permission.

CHIEF PEARSE: I am very slacken that subject.

CHIEF HALE: It seems to me the members here are a little slow in imparting their knowledge to their fellow brethren. 1 think some one ought to get up and make a talk here. I have been doing considerable talking, f can say this: I fee! for one, that if it is necessary that a regular army of the United States should be drilled and a military company be able to dismantle cannon and to handle ammunitions of war, it is just as important, and more so, that firemen should be properly drilled. I believe I represent one of the fire departments that has gone into that thing as early as any in the United Stales. In Kansas City the city has provided a hall 125×50 feet, provided with all the appliances, gymnasium, and everything necessary, and I can say it is very beneficial. We have the ladder practice,etc. We have the different implements similar to New York city. I saw about the same arrangements there. The school in New York city has all the different appliances used in the department—the light apparatus used in the training school—and it is certainly very beneficial to the service. I believe a man should be just as familiar with his work in the fire department as he is in the army in handling implements of war. In our city the firemen are put through a drill. In each company there is a man sent to headquarters, and we have a drill master to put them through the foot movements so that, when our department is taken out on the street; we are just as well drilled as any military company. It looks well when the department is brought out before the public. It makes a a good show. They are also drilled in gymnasium exercises, and I am here to say it is a good thing. I know it. Experience has taught me it is the most valuable auxiliary to a fire department that can be brought about. We go into the engine house and see trained horses jump into their harness; men are trained to hitch them rapidly, and it is just as important that they should do everything else rapidly. Practice makes perfect. I believe it ought to be encouraged, as it is very important.

CHIEF REDKIX: I wish to extend a vote of thanks to Chief Dickenson for the way he complimented me. I admit I have drilled a great deal—and have also drilled a great many men, and 1 never asked a man to drill toanything that I didn’t do myself, I, perhaps, inaugurated a drill different from other men; but I always started from the ground. I never let a man get above the second story, until I knew what he was doing and until he knew, too, even to the marching drill. Not to cast reflections on fire companies, you will all agree with me that the greatest incentive is tojhook up and get out in the least time, Companies will tell you that they get out in three or four seconds. They can’t do it. 1 tell you the company that averages getting out the year round in half a minute is doing well. We have a rope drill, teaching men to make ail kinds of knots. I have found in my experience a great many men who didn’t even know how to make a line of hose fast to hoist to the roof, making them prope:lv, and it don’t require an ax or a knife to disengage them. He gets up onahigbbuilding.and he hasn’t anyway to get down—he hasn’t even a belt; but he can get down all right if he is taught. A great many men tremble if they have to get down from high disances.but in a little while they can jump from story to story without any trouble—practice makes perfect. The first time I asked three men to throw up a 50 foot ladder, they looked at me in horror. I don’t say it in idle boast, but if you will come to our department I will show you three men that will throw up a ladder that way without any trouble. At first they made a bungling job of it, and I had other men to Hand by to catch it, so that nothing serious should occur; but by practice they got so they could do it all right. I have one man take the end of the ladder and lift it as high as he can, and the other two put it up against the building. Afteryou know how, it is easily done. A great many men think the pompier drill is a poor drill—a great many men are antagonized to any drill— but I don’t care what drill is instituted, it kills the monotony of sitting round’lhe house, and, as we all know, the less a man does the less he wants to do. 1 don’t believe in making a man work too hard; I know they all work with all their strength when they are called on to work. I want them to work slowly; speed will come with its own volition. Do it carefully, do it properly, and, when they have come to put it into execution, they will do it all right whether it is daylight or dark. On this subject of drills I might stand here and talk a long timeI don’t know as I could embrace anything more in that. We have been having a little drill of standing the men up in a line and calling on Smith, for instance, to go and get the monkey-wrench; drill them to get the appliances; ask him how many brooms there are, and where they are. He knows, and every man in that company knows, and in that way they become familiar with the appliances, and know just where they are, and there is no confusion in getting them when they are needed. I don’t know of anything further that I might remark, only to say that no matter what drill you institute, or what you ask a man to do in conjunction with his line of duty, it is beneficial to him to do it. As I was going to remark about the pompier drill; that, I think, is one of the grandest drills that was ever instituted in the fire department. A man does not like it because he is not familiar with it. It may never have to be used in his fire department; but, when you do want it, you want it just like Paddy did his gun, you, 1 want it d-d bad.” I beg pardon of the ladies for using that expression ; but we will call it French—that’s what Paddy said; it wasn’t my fault. I find that after men once become enthused a little with their drill, they like it. If you have a man in your company that is called a disorganizer, you have one man too many. I don’t care who he is—don’t care where you find him—don’t care where he came from. The drill may not appear right to him, but some day he may wish he had it. I never saw a man top-heavy, that a drill of that kind made lop sided, The proficient artisan is the man who is drilled and acquainted with his appliances, and the tools that he works with—not only to know what they are, but to know how to use them. (Applause).

CHIEF PEARSE: I quite agree with Chief Redell on this question of the pompier ladder. I never tried it until this year, and since the 1st of May I have tried it in every department. There isn’t a man in there that isn’t familiar with it, so far as we can teach him. They can all make a nice showing and they become familiar with the work. It is just so with the .aerial ladder work. Ve have two mornings in the week that the aerial trucks are out, two other mornings in the week for the pompier practice—four companies at that, I never found anything as beneficial to the men as that little drill this year. As you all know, a new man is afraid of the pompier ladders. He looks up seven or eight stories high and he thinks it is a long way up there. By degrees they get over this, what you might call stage fright, and become accustomed to it, so they can do it without any difficulty. We have no school there, or anything of that kind—by having a gymnasium it would be very much better; but a great deal can be accomplished on tall buildings. Between nine and ten we have regular street drills going through the military movements. It don’t amount to much; but you might be called out sometime for funerals or something of that kind, and then it shows the department off to goodjadvantage. It don’t hurt a man to drill and become proficient in anything of that kind. I would like to hear from Chief Dickenson on this, for I know he has something back of his ears there.

CHIEF DICKENSON: I think that subject has been pretty well covered. I suppose what you are getting at is the different styles of drill. I think Chief Redell there has covered the matter. He is thoroughly versed in drill work. In regard to the different modes of getting members into the department —we take them in just as cadets. We put a man in just as you would a horse. You run him down street and back again —up a 75 foot ladder and down again. You take his pulse, his respiration and time by a committee of three, and he is given a standing and put on a list and they must appoint from that list. He has a physical, mental, and athletic examination. Now he comes in for six months at fifty dollars a month. At the end of six months the captain must report on him for the six months. We drill the captains first, and the captains drill the men. They must go all through the mamevres that can happen. At the end of six months if he is reported favorably, be is advanced and gets ten dollars more; if not favorably, he stays where he is for another six months. At the end of that time, if the captain don’t report favorably, he drops out; if favorably, he goes on, and soon for two years, the captain has to report on him every six mouths. He has to run up laddders, make connections, etc., for practice; and it would surprise some of you to see them when they first begin, and see the difference at the end of six months, in making the hose connections and making connections on buildings, putting np ladders, and everything of that kind that is necessary. As Chief Hale says, it is just as necessary in a fire department as in the army. That is about all I can say. I don’t believe in congregating in any one place, but having it going on every day. It relieves the monotony and you get better men.

It was now moved that topic No. 11 be received and spread upon the proceedings of the convention. Carried.

TOPIC NO. 12

was read by Secretary Hill: ” In view of our approaching twenty-fifth anniversity, should it not be the sense of this association that the convention assemble in the city of Baltimore, Md., in 1897, and then carefully review, in the cradle that gave us birth our past course of action ami success ?’’

On suggestion of Chief Pearse the matter was passed for the present.

THE NEXT PLACE OF MEETING

Chief Devine moved that they make the selection for their next place of meeting at 11 o’clock a. m., next day. Carried.

MR. CLARK: Can’t I introduce that little matter now that I spoke of—I asked permission this morning?

SOME QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.

BY President—You may.

MR. CLARK: The State Firemen’s Association of Vermont sent me here as a delegate. At their convention some three weeks ago the subject came up in regard to the inspection of buildings; as to who had the right to do it, etc., and we found in conversation there and in debate that there was but one town in the State of Vermont where they had such an officer, and it was there suggested that an act should be asked for by the legislature of a general nature under which the various towns, villages, and cities in the State should appoint men under certain general regulations, I would ask if there are any gentlemen here who have such a State law, and, if they have, will they kindly state its workings and put me on the track of where I can find that law ?

MR. BARKMAN: In the State of Illinois the chief has a right to inspect any place to which he sees fit to go—I wil. send Mr. Clark a copy of the law.

MR. HARRIS: About two years ago we had a law passed that all buildings should be inspected by the chief of the fire department—also the plans and specifications. If the chief was in doubt about the buildings, he had the authority to call in any competent architect. In my town a city ordinance gives the chief of the fire department absolute control in regard to the construction of buildings and also in erecting wires.

THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Clark wanted a State law—at the same time there is but one State that has such a law.

MR. CLARK: I would esteem it a favor if the gentleman would send me a copy of this ordinance that he speaks of so that we may draft a bill that will cover the topic.

CHIEF HUMPHREYS: DO I understood that our friend Clark is a resident of Vermont?

MR. CLARK: I am not a resident in Vermont, but a representative of the Vermont State Association. At their request I was asked to bring this matter before you gentlemen of experience.

CHIEF HUMPHREYS: If the gentleman will come to Pittsburgh, we can show him a law there regulating the construction the buildings. We had an ordinance passed in the city of Pittsburgh within the last six months which requires a very rigid inspection, and no man is allowed to start a building unless he does it under the inspection and building law in Pennsylvania. Perhaps, I should say that the cities of Pennsylvania are classified as first, second, third and fourth class. The laws of Philadelphia are almost identical. We have some local laws. If he visits Philadelphia or any other city in Pennsylvania, if he gets hold of the laws of 1895, I think he will find what he wants.

MR. BARKMAN: As the representative of the Illinois State Fireman’s Association, there are one or two matters which I would like to bring before you, and get the expression of some of the older heads here. I would like to go back five years. At that time I joined the National Association. The question was asked me, “What good can be derived from it?” and I answered that I thought by being a member of this National Association, and by sending a representative year after year they would surely derive more or less benefit from it, and the time would come when this National Association, in connection with their topics and papers would begin to use their united efforts in the way of receiving proper legislation. I have sat through this convention and I have learned a great deal. I came from a city of only 32,000, and we think we have got the best fire department on earth there, as Chief Hale said. The boys a’l think so; at the same time these high buildings, etc., are all beyond our reach. We haven’t the tall buildings and all that. It has been my idea for years that the National Association could take hold of this matter of legislation, and adopt some universal plan by which all States could have the same law—that is, the same universal law’. Our State Association was organized for that purpose, and I can say the people of the State of Illinois are doing nobly by it. We are not asking for any legislation but what we are receiving right along, but w’e find in having our bills presented there, in looking over the other States, our neighboring sister States, there is always some difference in the laws, and it seems to me if we would have this one of the topics here it would be good. I will return, and at our convention next winter, 1 will have the same old story to tell that I have told for the last five years. We submit the printed report there, but there isn’t anything that touches the smaller departments. I may be wrong—I may not have the right idea here; but it does seem to me that the increase of this association could be doubled in a way, if we went at it in the proper way. I simply want to make this suggestion and hear the opinion of some others. I know there are State organizations represented here. They send their delegates here, and I know they want to go home with something, if nothing but a few remarks from some of the older heads on the subject, and then w’e shan’t have such a hard fight next winter in getting them to knock out that clause that we are fighting for. We have only asked so far for one law that amounts to anything and that is the insurance law. We have crossed swords with the insurance companies and we have won the fight, while others are having a pretty hard time of it. We have under headway two bills to be presented to the next legislature—one asking for the establishment of a home, the other for insurance. We have another trying to do away with all this political pull in the fire department—to remove all politics entirely from the fire department—from the Chicago fire department down to the very smallest one in the State—and we think we may be able to accomplish it all right; but at the same time, while w’e are doing that,other Stat*s are not going along in the same line, and I think this National Association could accomplish more, and do more, if they would take hold of it, because we look up to the higher head and we want all the information we can get. When you stop to think about the number of fire departments, even large fire departments, over 20,000 and up, that we have in this country of ours to-day, and then see the small representation that is here, there is some reason for it—some cause for it, and it is my opinion and idea that if something of that kind was started here, we should’nt have any trouble in doubling away up ten fold the membership of this association, reaching the smaller departments. It has been my idea, and I have talked with several members in the last few days—my suggestion would be that this National Association ask the different State associations to appoint a committee of one from each one of their associations to make at some time,even at this next annual meeting—that each one present some plan for a universal law. Let them take action on it, and let that report be submitted to your executive committee. Let them draft some plan for it. I would like to hear this matter discussed a little for the reason that I believe, and I know,that there are others here in the same boat that I am in. We haven’t the gift of oratory to get up and make a long speech; we haven’t had the experience that some of these older heads have had, but we do want to go back with some assurance to the State Association, that shall induce them to keep on sending their representatives here, so that, when they come to ask the question, “ Do you think it pays to send a representative?” we can sav “ yes” and give some reason for it.

CHIEF BATY: I am somewhat of a new member in this association, and I have been a little backward in getting on my feet before the different members of the association, but after listening to the remarks of my friend who has just sat down, I have nerved myself to make a few remarks too. We, from the smaller cities are sent to this convention to learn. You bring up subjects of twenty and twenty-five story buildings—that’s all right —we have no twenty-five story buildings. We have no fifteen story buildings. We would like and I am satisfied the older chiefs are willing, to teach us younger members. I think if the new executive committee next year would adopt some subject that would teach us younger chiefs—chiefs from smaller cities, it would be a good thing. Now, when we go back, they ask us what we have learned. We can tell them we have learned how to fight a fire in a twenty-five story building. What do they care for that? That’s all right; that’s good information, but, they say,won’t you teach us how to fight afire in a three-story building. You might say, “ Well, you ought to have sense enough to do that.” All right and good, perhaps, we have, but you, gentlemen, too, should have sense enough to fight a fire in a twenty-five story building. Now, I would make the motion that the new executive committee assign or adopt some subject that would touch these smaller departments. That would be interesting to them. Perhaps I haven’t made the motion exactly as I should, but you understand the sum and substance of my remarks, (applause.)

THE PRESIDENT: YOU have heard the remarks, and I should be glad to hear from some of the older chiefs in regard to them. They have come here for information, and I think the older chiefs should say something.

CHIEF DICKENSON: I think the secretary this year or last year, sent to the different State departments, asking them to state any topic that they wanted discussed. If there is anything in regard to the fire department that any of the smaller cities want to know, they have to ask for it, and that is all. If there is anything you want to know when you go back to your State convention, put it in the shape of a topic and forward it to Secretary Hills, and I will wager anything there will be a full discussion of the question. We dont’t know what you want. Just ask what you want and the different delegates will answer any question you want on the subject of putting out fires.

CHIEF BARKMAN. In answer I will say that I thought I stated what I wanted, or what I want this convention to do, if they feel like it—to pass a resolution here, asking that a committee be appointed in each State, so that this association at our next meeting could go to work and give some universal laws, anything that the committee sees fit to bring up—and I believe this convention is the placoto do it—to do the fighting. The National Association should help fight the battles of the State Association, for they have more power to do it.

CHIEF DICKENSON: I beg your pardon—I did not understand you.

CHIEF KISKK: I think I can readily see through some of this difficulty. I asked about the same question last year down South, and Brother Humphreys gave me a good deal of good advice there both off and on the floor. I think the trouble lies with us young chiefs. We don’t know in the first place what we v.ant to ask until we put our thoughts together. We have got to be proficient in our business, if we are proficient chiefs. We can’t do it without study; we can’t do it without hard work. I have learned more myself in practical plain English by exchanging ideas with the different chiefs— something that had occurred to me wherein I had failed. Possibly I have made a slight mistake, and in conversation with the different chiefs, in asking their experience under the same circumstances, what they would have done, I have learned a good deal: Now those things have time and time again occurred to me on the spur ot the moment at fires—it may be one of the simplest things, gentlemen, when you come to think of it. Possibly there may be some just as green as I am in this convention to-day that wouldn’t know any better than I did. It was simply a roof on fire. It was a long while, in fact, two years, and that is a good while before I had common sense enough to go straight up inside and take my plaster hooks down before the fire got away with me. I asked a certain man, “ What would you have done under the same circumstances?” He said, “ What did you do?” and I said, “ Well, I got on the roof and cut it full of holes and got all the boys up there and threw water all over everything and spoiled the house.” There was a chance where I saw I might have had every opportunity to go up inside by the cool judgment and put out that fire and not damaged the house half as much. I simply cite this gentlemen, as an illustration.

CHIEF HUMPHREYS: I confess there is a good deal of importance attached to the suggestion by the two gentlemen— one representing the State Association; the’other representing a city department. I can realize, too, that State associations and small fire departments naturally look up to the meetings of the National Association of Fire Engineers for information after the discussion of topics and subjects that are no doubt of interest and value to them; but, when you come to talk about the question of law; when you come to discuss a matter that must be enforced by law before a representative body of this kind, then you become entangled in a sea of confusion. It is simply a matter of practice. If there be anything in connection with the organization of the fire departments, or anything in connection with the running of the government of hat department, or anything in connection with the appliances used in that department, in putting out fires, then you ask something that we can readily grant; or something upon which we can readily deliberate and exchange views, and from the information derived from each other, adopt a universal system of practice in that direction, simply from the fact that we are convinced that this is the best ; but, when you come to discuss a matter that involves the enactment of laws, then, as I said before, you at once get into a sea of trouble. I didn’t catch what kind of a law the gentlemen meant, or what particular topic or subject he alluded to. If it is for the establishment of a firemen’s home, then we might adopt a resolution upon that subject. We believe that each State ought, in justice, provide a home for veteran firemen; but if you come to discuss how that law shall be enacted, and that the law shall be universal throughout the entire States, then you are attacking a subject that you cannot accomplish at all,or rather, you are attacking the accomplishment of a subject in regard to which your deliberations here will amount to nothing. Why ? simply because we come from different States. We are in contact with different kinds of people who havedifferent needs —some can get this thing accomplished and that thing, while others fail. If there be anything that is general in its character—anything that would involve fighting with people in one section of our States, as against people of another section of the States; then we might place somethingon our minutes that would be of value. But, to propose a universal law in this country, where there are forty-five States, all mixed up now in a muddle with silver and gold, with Populists and Liberaiists, with Democrats and Republicans, and we propose to adopt some universal law on some particular subject, we might as well get a pair of wings and fly to the heavens above. But, if there be any principal involved that would find its way into a law that would be beneficial to the firemen of this country, then let us know what it is,and if we can do any good by a resolution adopted here at our annual association, we might adopt a resolution to that effect, or express an opinion upon that particular subject or thing. Hut, to get up a commtitee to draft a law to cover any particular subject relative to the social or other relations of the firemen that shall adapt itself to all the States of this Union, why it Is futile, and only a waste of time. As I said before, however,if there be any particular principle upon which we, as a National Association, could giye weight or influence by recommending it to the legislature, and to the different States, then we might adopt it; but no further than that, in my judgment, can we go with any degree of propriety.

CHIEF HIGGINS: This was a question which was agitated some five years ago in this convention. I think I said something upon that question myself at that time. I think I talked with some Ohio men and I think they have acted on tha since that time. As Mr. Humphreys says, whatever action might be taken by this convention, would be a waste of time, as we have no power in that direction. We are here as representatives of the cities and towns; but this organization is a powerful organization. It is composed of some very able men who have much influence at home. There are men at home, no matter how well a man performs his duty, who think they can do better. A man«comcs along who has just been elected alderman or to some other little petty office, and he tries to take advantage of your situation. He taps you on the back if you don’t comply with his desires, and finally manages to get up an opposition to you. no mater how faithful an officer you arc. Now I contend that no braver set of men ever stood on God’s footstool than the firemen of this country. (Applause) The Grand Army is no braver. It has performed no more heroic deeds than the firemen of this country. We are fighting our battles in the night-time and the day, and at all times. We don’t know what we are running up against. We don’t know what we are going to get, but they generally did know and got it too. Now I believe it is the sense of this convention or organization to adopt a resolution here directing every State to have a State organization of its chief engineers. They should meet at certain periods previous to this convention, or at the time the legislatures of your State meet, and they should look over the general laws, and they should have laws enacted. What for? Why to protect them in the performance of their duty, and to protect their families in case their lives are lost. Some cities have pensions—others have not. I think it is a fair thing. As I understood the gentlemen from the State organizations, their interests may be different from thei nterests of the gentlemen in this organization, but when they meet in their conventions they can talk over what is for the welfare of the different communities. Let that be the work of State organizations. This National association has nothing whatever to do with that, but simply to act as a protector for them. I believe it would be a good resolution, and 1 move it is the sense of this convention that every State shall be directed to call aconvention of its chief engineers for the good and welfare of their committees.

CHIEF HUMPHREYS: One word more, To my mind, Chief Higgins, of Albany, in his remarks has opened up, or sugested away whereby the State associations of tire engineers can express themselves on these different topics or questions of interest that affect the firemen of the respective States in this Union. Now, if the gentleman from Illinois, if in their State association they could resolve that certain measures should be enacted by members of the legislature of that State, in the interest of the firemen of that State, and they want the influence of the chief engineers of the entire National Association in their behalf, let him come here as a representative of that State Association, and tell us the nature of that law— what they propose to accomplish; what they have done with a view to its accomplishment—and lay it before us, let us discuss it, and, after discussing it, if in our judgment we deem it proper, let us adopt a resolution and address it to the legislature of the State of Illinois, statingthat weare in favor of the law; but, for us to go to work in the premises and appoint a committc for the purpose of drafting universal laws to fit all the States, it is no use making the attempt, for we can’t accomplish anything.

MR. Bakkman.—That motion covers exactly what 1 am trying to get at. I told you before that I really didn’t know what I did want; but I want to-get this thing started, and I think the chief’s motion is all right. In regard to the chief’s motion over here, if that motion is carried and go;s through, and I came here, our chiefs in Illinois, I am sure, will take advanage of it, and, if we adopt some plan for some law—some certain law—and ask for the help of the National Association in the way of recommending it, even to our legislatures, if they think well enough of it to do that, then other States will follow in our footsteps. That’s just what f was trying to get at.

CHIEF HIGGINS: I move that this convention request the chief engineers of the different states to effect a State organisation before the next annual meeting. Carried.

REPORT OF SECRETARY,

The report showed the receipts to be as follows for the year: Dues, $1,315; advertisements. $525; total,$1,840; membership, 532, there being 300 active members, 88 life members, 14 members of State Associations, 65 associate members, and 116 honorary members an increase of 32 over the membership of last year. The death roll for the year included Chief Keilleyof Syracu e. N.Y.; Chief Cluneyof Jamestown, N.Y. Chief Zeinert of Yankton, S. I)., f. N, Marks, a life member of New Orleans, and former Chief Galllgan, of Omaha. Neb. Attention was called to the fact that great difficulty had been met in the matter of securing reduced rates over the railroads, and Chiefs Swenie of Chicago, and Devine of Salt Lake, were complimented U|>on their success in securing a rate of $30 for the round trip from Chicago to Salt 1 .«ke.

THE PRESIDENTGentlemen, you have heard read the report of thesecretary, What shall we do with it?

It was moved that it be received and printed upon the minutes.

CHIEF HUMPHREYS: 1 would suggest that the secretary between now and to-morrow morning draw up a couple of resolutions covering the matters referred to to be presented to the convention to be voted upon.

THE PRESIDENT: AS the secretary’s report should be referred to the auditing committee of which Chief Higgins is chairman, the other two members being’absent, 1 will appoint Chiefs McAfee and Stone to fill the vacancies.

Chief Higgins stated that he would meet with the balance of the committee at Knutsford at 7 o’clock—he had an appointment with another committee at 6 o’clock.

REPORT OF TREASURER I.ARKIN.

Receipts—1895—October 1,Balance on hand, $124.81; October to, received from dues, $950; December 15, received from H. A. Hills,$150; 1896—January 18. Received from H. A. lii’ll,$150; Febiuary it,received from II. A. Hills, $150; March 23,received from If. A. Hills, $150; April 30, received from H. A. Hills. $120; July 20, received from H. A. Hills, $145; July at. received from H. A. Hills, $25, total receips, $1,964.21.

Disbursements.—1895.—October 10, H. A. Hills salary, postage, etc., $324.08; October, 10, Keating & Co., printing, $60; October 10, E. M. Carroll, expense, $26.60; October 10, Edward Hughes, expense, $22; October 10, M S. Humphreys, expense, $40. December 20, A. H. Grant, stenograph>ng, $90; December 28, if. A. Hills, salary, $200; December 28, postage, $80.96. 1896. — January 21, Keating & Co,

printing report, $396.50; March 24th, H. A. Hills, salary. $200; April 30, II. A. Hills, postage, etc., $86.40; May 20, T. W. Haney, expense, $54.60; May 20, G. W. Taylor, expense, $21.25; May 20, A. J. Kennedy, expense, $20; June 20, I). C. Larkin, expense, $27.50; July 21. If. A. Hills, Salary, $200; July 21, H. A. Hills, postage, etc., $72 86; Auggust 1, Balance on hand, $40.37. Total receipts, $1964.21; total disbursements, $1923.84; balance on hand, $40.37.

AFTERNOON SESSION

CHIEF TAYLOR: It is a well-known fact, that since the organization of this association many of our members have answered the last roll call, and have traveled to that “undis covered bourne from which no traveler e’er returns,” and it has been :he usual custom at our annual meetings to call ;he roll of our members. I must say a most barbarous practice has been established simply to call the roll of our dead and honored members and have the secretary say, ‘‘died in the service,” and that so indistinctly that very few of us hear what has been said, I, therefore, move that at this meeting it be resolved by this association that at all annual meetings a special hour be designated in which the roll of our honored dead shall be called that an opportunity may be afforded any member of paying a short tribute to their memories. Motion carried.

Mr. Clark asked how many wishtd to leave on Thursday evening’s special train.

CHIEF DEVINE; I find that Mr. Clark has still his old failing—he hates to travel alone. Now it is a very nice thing to have the people leave Salt Lake City as has been indicated and the universal magnanimity and generosity that hasalways been displayed by the 1’ullman service has been illustrated in this, by their keeping their car watting for the accomodation of our guests. And while Salt Lake City does not want to ask any one to stay one hour or one day longer than they feel they can spend in our midst, we don’t allow the impression to get out that the tickets purchased to Salt Lake City and return must naturally be used on Thursday evening or Friday evening. If Chief Pearse and our Colorado friends have made some arrangement for the entertainment of our friends on their return trip, I for one, and I know my fellow citizens feel as I do, would not have one person stay one hour or one minute longer in Salt Lake City, if it would add to their pleasure to leave on this train. I make these few remarks in explanation of the tickets that were spoken of. The tickets will be recognized and the trains will run just the same and the people can stopover In Denver, and I am sure that they will receive the same hospitality as that which awaits them should they leave on Thursday evening as has been indicated by my friend from Vermont. (Applause).

DENVERS’ INVITATION.

Secretary Hills read communication from the fire and police commission of Denver, Co!., August 11, 1896. To the Members of the International Association of Fire Engineers. Gentlemen: The annual parade and review of the fire and police departments of our city occur on Monday next, August 16, 1896, at TO a. m., and as you journey homeward we would be greatly pleased to have you stop over and be our guests on that occasion. We will give you a royal welcome and promise to make your visit among us a pleasant one. Very respectfully yours, A. W. Hogle, of fire and police board.

1 HE PRESIDENT: YOU have heard the invitation from the gentleman from Denver.

CHIEF JOYNER: I move that the invitation from the fire and police board be accepted, and I wiil state here I had the pleasure of stopping over in Denver and I know they will be well treated, and I know every person who visits the city of Denver will be pleased with the trip, and I move the invitation be accepted. Carried.

A delegate moved adjournment until the next morning at 10 o’clock. Carried.

THIRD DAY’S PROCEEDINGS.

REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON EXHIBITS.

Convention was called to order at TO o’clock.

CHIEF HIGGINS read the report of the committee on exhibits as found in each one of the vouchers.

“ Salt Lake City, Utah, August 12, I896.

To the President and members of the International Association of Fire Enginrers:

Gentlemen:—We, your Committee on Exhibits make the following report: We have examined all the exhibits, twentyseven in all, and witnessed tests made by the several exhibitors. Respectfully, M. E. Higgins, James Burk, J. F. Pelletier, James McFall, G. O. Purdy.”

Chief Joyner moved that the report be received and placed upon the minutes. Carried.

REPORT OF AUDITING COMMITTEE.

Chief Higgins presented the auditing Committee’s report as follows:

“We find the treasurer’s books and the books of the secretary balance and accounts are all right’”

It was moved that the report be received and spread upon the proceedings of the convention. Carried.

THE NEXT PLACE OF MEETING.

THE PRESIDENT: The next thing in order will te the selection of the next place of meeting.

Chief Devine made the announcement that the trip to Garfield Beach had been arranged for the 2.15 train, and cars would be in readiness to convey the delegates. (Applause).

CHIEF RF.DF.LL : I have a few letters which I would like to read. This (indicating letter) is a formal, or rather infoimal, invitation from the Commercial Club to the members of this Association to try and meet with us inOmaha in 1898:

“OMAHA, Neb., August 5, 1896.

“To the International Association of Fire Chiefs. Salt Lake City, Utah—Greeting : The Commercial Club, of Omaha, includes in its membership the representatives of the entire business interests of this city. ‘1 he menders of this club fully appreciate the magnitude, scope, and high aims of the Inteinationtl Association of Fire Chiefs, and the true worth and excellent ability of the noble and brave men that comprise the organization. Also, it is with great pleasure that we cordially request the selection of the city of Omaha as the location of your annual meeting in 1898. The principal incentive in giving this invitation is that from June to November in 189S the Trans-Mississippi and International Exposition will be held in this city that will be second only the World’s Fair Exposition. The success of this great enterprise was assured by the late act of Congress that recognized and gave financial aid and support to the undertaking. Attention is called to the fact that Omaha is the central city of the United States, and is midway between the two great oceans, and located on the shortest trans continental line of railway. There is a short and direct line of railroad from Omaha to every city in America; this gives easy accessibility. Again, during the exposition low rates of transportation will be available to visiting delgates and friends. This is considered a favorable feature, as it guarantees half-rates or less. Also, during the year 1898, new excursion rates will be in effect to the Black Ilills, Yellow Stone Park, Colorado, and all points of interest in the great West, and, as the shortest and most direct line of railway extending from Omaha to these sections, it is anticipated that this will be another distinctive and attractive feature. The rapid growtli of Omaha has caused it to be called the ” Magic City”; also, it is a beautiful city, and has a grand future in its relations to the commerce of the world. Again, this is a city of hospitality and good cheer, and great pride will be taken in making your visit with us one that will be fraught for long years to come with sweet memories and happy recollections. Therefore, we beg that you will assemble with us in 1898, and hope that, in the meantime, your iives will be happy, prosperous, and free from accident or misfortune. Sincerely yours. Commercial Club of Omaha. C. F. Weller, president; J. E. Utt, secretary.

Omaha, Neb., Aug. 7, 1896. To the International Association of Fire Engineers in convention assembled at Salt Lake City, Utah. Mr. President and Gentlemen.—Atameetingof the city council of the city of Omaha, Nebraska, on Saturday August 1, 1896, the city council by a unanimous vote instructed the president and city clerk of said city council to extend an invitation to the International Association of Fire Engineers, to hold their convention of 1898, in Omaha, and that said invitation duly signed to be given to Fire Chief Redel!,to be presented to the convention to be held in Salt Lake City, Utah, August 10-14, 1896. Pursuant to above instructions, the city of Omaha, through its president and city cierk, extend a most cordial invitation to the International Association of Fire Engineers to hold their convention in Omaha in 1898, at which time the Trans-Mississippi Exposition in which twentyfour states will be represented, will be open. In extending this most cordial invitation we would respectfully state that Omaha has a population of 140,000, has ample hotel accomodations, a colliseum that will seat 10,000 people and is the centre of thirteen railroads. Should your association decide to hold its convention in this city, every effort will be made to make your session a success. W. A. Saunders, president of the city council; Beecher Higby, city clerk.

Omaha, August 4, I896. To the International Association of Fire Chiefs, Sait Lake City, Utah. Gentlemen: In behalf of the city of Omaha I take pleasure in extending to you an invitation to hold your convention for 1898 in the city of Omaha. Should you accept, we are confident we can make your visit one of pleasure as well as of profit. As an addition, ai inducement you will at that time have an opportunity of visiting the Trans-Mississippi Exposition which will be held in Omaha. Respectfully, W. J. Broatch, mayor.

Omaha, Neb., August 6 1896. The International Association of Fire Engineers in convention assembled at Salt Lake City, Utah. Gentlemen: On behalf of the board of fire and police commissioners of the City of Omaha, and for and in the name of every fire fighter in the Omaha brigade, and voicing the sentiment of all of our citizens represented by the mayor and council, we extend to you.a most cordial invitation to hold your annual convention for the year 1898 in the city of Omaha, that you may be “present and enabled to attend our Trans-Mississippi Exposition as well as your convention. We assure you a most cordial reception, and believe that you will enjoy your visit in Omaha, and profit thereby. This communication will be handed to you by our worthy chief, John Redell. If he is as well known and appreciated by the members of your convention as by this board and the people of Omaha, you will be glad to receive this communication from his hands, and we are sure you will vote unanimously to meet in Omaha in the year 1898. Respectfully yours truly, Wm. Harvey, secretary fire and police; A. C. Foster, chairman.

CHIEF REDELE: I merely wish to state that I thank you for the privilege of reading these invitations, and I sincerely hope in 1897 you will remember that Omaha is in the field. (Applause).

Chief Humphreys moved that it be published in the proceedings of the convention and that the matter should be brought up for consideration at the next meeting. Carried.

CHIEF MCAFEE: It gives me much pleasure, and I think it does me much honor to be able to extend to this association on behalf of the mayor and city council of Baltimore, the fire commissioners as well as myself, a most cordial invitation to this association to hold its next annual convention in the city of Baltimore. As you are well aware, the association was organized in that city in 1873. However, I wish to say before telling you all about the beauties of our city—and I think we have a most beautiful place—that I was not aware until I started on this trip that next year the association will only be twenty-four years old and not twenty-five, and I would like very much to have this association to meet in Baltimore. 1 think we could take good care of it and entertain its members and their friends and whoever might come along with it. We have a city of 500,000 people, beautiful walks and drives, a fine river and bay, within 280 miles of the ocean and within 40 miles of the capital of the United States, where you can spend a few hours in sight-seeing. We promise you the largest oysters, fish, duck, or crabs and terrapin and all that sort of thing, if you are fond of them It strikes me, however, of course, I am a very young member, my first convention, but I learned a great deal on my trip from the East, and since I have been here I have learned a great deal more—there is a city represented in this association by a man for whom I have formed a great attachment since my acquaintance with him. and for his ability I have the greatest respect. I have learned from other members of this association that time and time again he has been called upon to perform duties that none of the other members of this association felt able to perform, and I think it is no more than right that justice should prevail, even though the heavens fall, and I think that man is entitled to the consideration of the members of this association. Asmuchas I would like to have the convention meet in Baltimore, and I would like to have it meet there, I say in justice to that man who has helped this association to overcome many obstacles which no one else felt able to take upand carry through, whose speeches have gone forth to all the people of this country, we should let the people of this country see that we have a man who. in addition to being a fireman, is a man of brains and who has added to this association as much as, if not more than anyone else—I speak of my friend Chief Humphreysof the Pittsburgh fire department. (Applause.) Gentlemen I do not want you to misunderstand me—I don’t want you to think I don’t want this convention—I do want it, I want it in 1898, (my friend Ridell stole some of my thunder, but I don’t care,) do want it in 1898, and I nominate Pittsburgh, I’a., as the next place for holding this convention. (Applause.)

PRESIDENT. ROULETT: I think it is now in order for the secretary to read topic No. 12—it was called for yesterday but a motion was made to lay it aside.

Secretary Hills read

TOPIC NO. 12.

“ In view of our approaching twenty.fifth anniversary, should it not be the sense of the association that the convention assemble in the city of Baltimore, Md,, ⅛ 1897. and there carefully review, in the cradle that gave us birth, our past course of action and success?

CHIEF HUMPHREYS: I move to amend that topic to read as follows:

“ In view of our approaching twenty-fifth anniversary it is the sense of the association here assembled, that the convention assemble in the city of Pittsburgh in 1897,and there carefully review our past course of action and success.” Strike out ” in the cradle that gave us birth ” and substitute “ Pittsburgh ” for ” Baltimore.”

Motion seconded by Chief McAfee.

CHIEF KENNEDY: I have an invitation here from the mayor of New Haven and the members of the fire commission which has been extended to the members of this association to meet in New Haven next year. I will let the secretary read the invitation. New Haven is a city of 200,000 inhabitants, lying on the borders of Long Island Sound—a two hours’ ride from New York, three from Boston, and two and one half from Providence. The mayor of the city of New Haven was a former member of this association. This year he could not come on account of business. He wants very much to have the convention held in New Haven, as he is going to retire as mayor and going away, and would like to have the convention held there to meet with his friends once more. Jt is unnecessary for me to tell you who Mayor Hendrick is, you all know him. He is a good man, and I hope when the convention next assembles it will be at the city of New Haven We will give you all the clams and fish that Baltimore will give you in 1898.

Secretary Hills read the invitation.

“New Haven, Conn., August 1, 1896. To the Officers and Members of the twenty-fourth Annual Convention of the International Association of Fire Engineers. Gentleman: At a meeting of the board of fire commissioners of the city of New Haven, Conn., held Tuesday evening, July 28, 1896, His Honor, the Mavor presiding, and all of the members of the board being present, including the chief of department, it was unanimously resolved to extend a cordial invitation to the International Association of Fire Engineers to hold their convention for the year 1897 in this city. That, should this invitation be accepted, our officials and citizens would esteem it a high honor, and a privilege to extend its greetings and hospitality to that degree as to insure a successful meeting in the Elm City. Trusting this invitation may receive your careful consideration, and that we may have the pleasure of receiving you next year, we remain Sincerely yours, M. F. Walker, Wm. H, McDonald, Edward Wines, Wm. E. Morgan, George Hugo, A. D. Sanborn, fire commissioners; A. J. Kennedy, chief fire department, A. C. Hendrick, Mayor. Attest. Rufus R. Fancher, acting secretary.

On the president asking if there were any other city to be placed in nomination a telegram from Pittsburgh requesting that the convention beheld in that city next year, was read.

PITTSBURGH, PA., Aug. it, 1896.—President International Association of Fire Engineers. The councils of city of Pittsburgh send greetings to your convention and earnestly request that you hold your next annual convention in Pittsburgh assuring you a royal welcome. J. O. Brown, director Dept. Public Safety.

MR. TAYLOR: I am placed in rather a delicate position this morning in having to appear before this association to advocate the acceptance of the invitation presented by Chief Kennedy of New Haven. We find ourselves in an unfortunate predicament. There are no two people on the top of God’s green earth for whom I hold a higher respect and for whom I entertain and cherish the most friendly personal relations than I do for Chief Humphreys and Chief Kennedy—when I speak of Chief Kennedy I include Mayor Hendrick. It is unnecessary for me to say anything in favor of these three gentlemen—they are well known to each and every one of you, and they are, as you all know, veteran fire fighters and veteran members of this association. But having promised Mayor Hendrick that at this convention I would say something in support of his invitation to members of this association. I feel that 1 could not do otherwise than say a word in favor of New Haven. There is no memberof this association who would work harder to get either one of those places than I would_ I wish it was so that we could go to both—I wish it was so that we could have two conventions a year, although not being an active member of the fire department, I was twentyone years in that service and no one enjoys those associations more than I do, and they are always pleasant spots in my memory—I have missed only twomeetings of this association since its organization in 1873, in the city of Baltimore, at which convention I was present. As I said before, I regret that this conflict is upon us. I regret that we have these two invitations at the same time, one from Pittsburgh and on® from New Haven, Yet I feel that I owe Chief Kennedy find Mayor Hendrick this obligation to say something for the city of New Haven, and, if the convention decides to go there, I assure you gentlemen one and all that you will receive a hearly welcome within its borders. (Applause.)

CHIEF HUMPHREYS: It was not until a few days ago that I thought it was possible for me to attend this convention, owing to the duties relating to my position and the ncc ssities of tne department over which I have control. However, upon a little consultation with the city authorities they insisted that I should go and leave the work which demanded my attention until my return, and, as I left they urgently requested that I should ask at the meeting of this association that the next convention be held in the city of Pittsburgh. Since my departure from home and after my arrival litre the city council of the city of Pittsburgh sent a dispatch to the president,which lias been read in convention, and also a duplicate to me inviting this association to come to Pittsburgh next year. Now I think it unnecessary for me to say much about our city. The city of Pittsburgh is known as a great manufacturing and commercial centre. We are a very busy people. There are no drones. In ordinary times everybody is active and has something to do. It is a city, too: I presume that has as little aristocracy in it as any city in the Union. Aristocracy has not got much hold there; yet there are many portions of our city that are very beautiful indeed. We are surrounded with scenery equal to that I think of any city in the Union. We have a history as interesting almost as any city in the Union, for just outside of its borders is where General Braddock fell and where Washington took command of the forces and led them safely backwards and then again came forward and captured Fort Duquesne, which is situated at the headwaters of the Ohio where the Allegheny and Monongahela join—the old courthouse still stands to-day in a rather decayed nevertheless fair stateof pres;rvation. We are noted as a city of hospitality. We have entertained a great deal and next year we entertain the Grand Army of the Republic; in 1898 we expect to entertain the grand organization of Knight Templars’ and I wish to say right here that, if this convention docs not resolve to come to our city next year, it will be impossible for us to invite them to come the year following because the Knights Templars will be about as much as we can take care of in one season. We have no oysters; we have no clams (laughter) only such as we have sent up from Baltimore in a six hours run and are fresh when we get them. (Laughter). We have,however, good common grub—something that will stick to your bones— we have plenty of both foreign .and domestic beer, and we are right in the heart of the manufacture of a brand of wine known as the ” Monongahela,” and, if any of you have not had an opportunity to sample any of it, you have lost something in your lives which you can make up when you come to Pittsburgh. (Laughter), Now, I do not propose to enter into an extended eulogy of my town. We are a commercial and manufacturing people, and 1 have not the least doubt in the world that, if you will come to our city, you will receive as hearty a reception as if they had passed resolutionsI want to say furthermore that our railroad facilities are unsurpassed by any city in the Union, running in all directions, centering in our city, and making it easy of access. I11 addition to that, within a radius ol a couple of hundred miles west, north, south and east are cities and towns ranging from 5,000, to 8,000, and as high as 20,000 people, some of which have paid fire departments and others volunteer departments, and those different departments will send their chiefs there, and 1 anticipate that you will have as large, if not the largest convention ever held by this association. One more word and I am done. Previous to the organization of paid fire departments in the city of Pittsburgh, we had volunteer fire departments of every kind, the members of which take an active interest in our firemen—some of whom are leading citizens, meu who have made both a city and a national reputation and they were members of the volunteer fire department in days gone by. It is about a half a century since the organization of the paid fire departments, and I think I can say without fear of contradiction that in every meeting of this association since its organization the Pittsburgh fire department has been represented by its fire chiefs, including myself, who had control of that department, and this is the first time in the history of this association that the convention has been asked to come to Pittsburgh. I make a special plea— I hope that the delegates in their wisdom will decide to come to Pittsburgh, and I assure you that everything that we can do wi|j be done in order to make your stay there both pleasant afld profitable, (Applause,)

PRESIDKNT ROULETT: The way I understand this, Chief Humphreys’ motion is to adopt Topic No. 12 as amended, that it should read Pilisburgh instead of Baltimore.

CHIEF HUMPHREYS: Yes, that is it.

THE PRESIDENT: Now; gentlemen, you have all heard the motion—all in favor of it signify by saying Aye, contrary, No.

CHIEF BENTLY: I move that this be decided by a rising vote.

A delegate moved that Topic 12 be indefinitely postponed. Carried.

CHIEF HIGGINS: l am rather in an embarrassing position this morning in relation to the two places named for the holding of the next convention. For Chief Humphreys and former Chief Hendrick I have the highest regard — both have done much for this association. When I first entered this organization some years ago, I was taken by the hand by Mr. Hendrick, who was a very active member of this organization — one of its principal founders. At times it was a very difficult thing to make progress; but he persisted and kept on and has done much to build up the association, he never missed a meeting; and now when the child has got so it can take care of itself, is it going to leave its mother when she invites it to come back ? This man has done credit to our convention and so honorably has he upheld himself that a great city selected him as its mayor, and I believe that it will be an injustice to that man if we do not vote at his request to visit his city. It is a beautiful place and I think many of the members of this convention would be pleased to go there. 1 think this invitation should be accepted by the unanimous decision of this convention without any opposition.

CHIEF RKDELL: I agree with this gentleman. There is nothing that I dislike’more than to get up and speak in the manner in which I am going to speak. There is no one man in the room to whom I would rather take of my hat than to Chief Humphreys; but the gentleman who seconded the nomination of New Haven, Mr. Taylor, you will bear in mind, got up the other day, and was the father of a resolution saying that we ought to pay more respect to the departed mem. bers, the names of whom were read off, and, perhaps, only a few in the building knew they were gone. I also believe in paying respect to the living. 1 am personally acquainted with Mayor Hendrick. I don’t attempt to state what Mr. Humphreys has done for this association; but 1 will merely state that Mayor Hendrick will retire from office next year as Mayor of New Haven, and he would consider it a compliment to have the convention convene in New Haven. Mr. Kennedy is about to retire from his department, and he would consider it a greater honor to retire from the department as president of this associaton. Now let me go back to the departed. Mayor Hendrick is not dead; neither is Mr. Kennedy; and, while I feel that the dead deserve respect, I have always felt that I would rather perform an act of kindness to the living, and do that which devolves upon me when a man is in the flesh and blood. When he is dead we know he is gone to his last resting place; he cannot require anything more on earth. I think that New Haven, under existing circumstances, is entitled to the consideration of this convention, and I hope you will assemble there in 1897. (Applause).

MR. MCDONNELL, of New Haven.—In behalf of the fire commission of the city of New Haven, we extend this invitation to your people for the express purpose that you will accept and visit our beautiful city of clams. As Chief Kennedy has said, it will be the last opportunity we will have ot inviting this association to meet in our city, as he is growing old in years, being a man of about six-five years of age. His time with us is very short as chief of our department. Now in regard to New Haven, we will say that we have one of the finest cities on the American continent, and we would like to have you come from the far West and visit it, and see for yourself what we have done, and will do the best we can to make it pleasant for the members of the convention and their friends. I, myself, have been at these conventions for the past five or six years, and I do not think there ever was a National Convention of the Fire Chiefs held in which New Haven was not represented, and I hope and trust in future it will be as in the past, that she will always be represented. (Applaus).

CHIEF HESTON moved that the roll be called and each delegate vote as his name iscalied, stating the city of his preference. Carried.

The roll was called by the secretary, who suggested that three tellers be appointed.

The Chair appointed three of the press reporters tellers.

The total number of votes cast was 101, New Haven receiving 55 and Pittsburgh 46.

A delegate from Texas announced that he intended to vote for Baltimore, as he joined the army from there thirty odd years ago; but, as the delegate from Baltimore allowed her colors to fall, he would vote for New Haven.

CHIEF MCAFEE: I take exception to the remarks that have been made by the gentleman from Texas—I did not allow the colorsof our city to fall; but, realizing that I had not the ghost of a chance to secure the convention, I retired as gracefully from the contest as I could.

CHIEF HALE: AS there are some thirty odd members whose names were not on the list, Chief Hale moved that the secretary call the roll of those new members.

CHIEF DEVINE pointed outthat there were several members near him whose names have not been called.

CHIEF MCMAHON: I don’t think anybody has a right to vote where this convention shall go, unless they have paid their dues and the secretary has got a receipt, and he ought to know who is entitled to vote—I don’t believe in asking this

man, Have you voted? Let them show their credentials that t ley are entitled to vote.

SECRETARY HILLS: They have done so, the committee has them.

CHIEF HIGGINS: Would like the result of the vote announced.

The secretary announced the vote 46 to 55 in favor of New Haven. (Applause.)

CHIEF HUMPHREYS: I move that the vote of this association be declared unanimous. Carried.

CHIEF JOYNER moved thatacommittee of five be appointed for the purpose of selecting officers for the ensuing year. Carried.

The President appointed Chiefs Joyner, Heinmiller, McMahon, Farley and Mullen.

CHIEF HALF, moved that the chair appoint a committee of three on resolutions.

The chair appointed Chiefs Hale, Humphreys and Taylor.

BY COMMITTEE ON RESOLUTIONS.

Read by Mr. Taylor.

Resolved, That the thanks of this association is hereby tendered to His Excellency Governor Wells, His Honor, Mayor Glendinning, Chief Devine, and the gentleman and ladies composing the reception committee, and through them to the people of this city and State for the very kind and hospitable manner in which they have received and entertained us during the days of our convention.

Resolved that we tender our sincere thanks to Professors Stephens and Daynes of the Tabernacle choir for the great musical tendered to us, assuring them that the strains of that delightful music and the melody of those sweetly blended voices will linger and remain long after we shall have reached our respective homes; be it further

Resolved: That we are grateful and extend our heartfelt thanks to the reporters of the Salt Lake City press for the very

able, complete, and impartial reports of the proceedings of our meeting. G. C. Hale, G. W. Taylor, M. S. Humphreys. Adopted.

Resolution No. 2.—Resolved: That we cordially tender to the exhibitors of fire department apparatus our most cordial thanks for the energy and enterprise displayed in bringing to our recurring conventions samples of their goods, and that we highly appreciate their kindly contributions towards defraying necessary and urgent expenses incurred by the association. Adopted.

Resolution No. 3.— IVhereas, The members of the International Association of Fire Engineers who assembled in Chicago upon the invitation of Chief Engineer D. J. Swenie to attend a meeting of our association at Salt Lake City, Utah, and

IV/ureas, Chiefs Swenie and Devine by untiring energy did succeed in making such ample and comfortable provisions for our long journey; therefore, be it Resolved, that we tender to Chiefs Swenie and Devine our sincere thanks for the success which attended their efforts in our behalf.

Resolved, That a vote of thanks be tendered the Chic »go, Milwaukee and St Paul, Union Pacific, Rio Grande, Western and Colorado Midland railway companies for their kindness to the members of this association, and for their efforts to make our long journey comfortable and pleasant. For such generosity the several roads will be held in lasting remembrance; be it further

Resolved, That we tender our thanks to Pullman Conductor F. S. Lithgow for his courtesies on the trip from Chicago to Salt Lake City. G. C. Hale, G. W. Taylor, M. S. Humphreys .

The resolutions were earned.

ELECTION OF OFFICERS.

The names of the officers elected to serve during the ensuing year have already appeared in these columns.

THE PRESIDENT: Gentlemen, you have heard read the report of the Committee appointed to select officers for the ensuing year, what is your pleasure.

It was moved that the report be adopted.

Carried.

Chief Joyner moved that a committee of three be appointed to escort the newly elected president to the chair.

The following were nominated by President Roulett, Chiefs Joyner, Pearse, and Swingly.

PRESIDENT ROULETT: Allow me to introduce’ to you our next president, Chief Devine, of Salt Lake City. (Applause).

I want to say to you that it is a great deal of pleasure for me to turn over the chair to Chief Devine, and allow me to tender to you my most sincere thanks for your kind attention and the aid which you have given me in the discharge of my duties as president of the association.

THE NEW PRESIDENT RETURNS THANKS.

CHIEF DEVINE: I feel deeply moved at the high honor that has been paid to me to-day in intrusting me with the highest office within the gift of this association to bestow. But, much as I appreciate that honor and much as I appreciate the office, I desire to say that you did me a greater honor when you determined to select Salt Lake City as the meeting place for holding this convention in 1896. I have more or less feeling of anxiety during the past twelve months since this selection was made as to what the outcome of this convention might be. I appreciated fully that a great deal was at stake for men who contemplated making exhibits here and a great deal for those who had an unbroken record for attending all conventions since the inception of this organization. I feel proud to-day that so many chiefs have visited us. and, while our number may not be as great as on former occasions, yet I doubt if within the history of this associ ation a more generally representative gathering has occurred in any city than at which has just now closed its session in the city of Salt Lake. (Applause). We have almost every State in the Union represented. We have men here from the extreme East and from the extreme South and at a great sacrifice both of time and money; and the long tiresome journey which they have had is proof positive that they are made of material that will see that the banner of this organization always shall wave where it should. This is no time now for speech-making, but informally closing the session that you have just held, I desire to say that I wish to return to the new members of this association and the friends who have visited here, a hundred thousand thanks for coming to Salt Lake City, and I pledge to you that, such as my efforts may be worth, they shall be expended to the best of my ability to see that the next convention shall be also a success and that this organization shall continue to prosper in the next year as it has in the past. Thanking you. (Applause).

Chief Pearse moved that the convention adjoin sine die.

Chief Joyner moved that, as the president had just taken the chair, he be allowed further time to appoint the executive committee.

It was announced that the president would make the appointment of committees and forward the names to the secretary.

Chief Pearse renewed his motion to adjourn.

The convention adjourned to meet in New Haven, Conn,, in 1897.

CHIEF DEVINE CANED.

At the conclusion of the first day’s proceedings a pleasing scene was enacted.

CHIEF BURRUS, mounting the platform, presented an elegantly carved walkingsticktoChief^Devine, saying: Chief Devine, incoming to your city I took upon myself to bring with me ac ompanion for you as you journey down the line of life into old age, before you dry up and blow away, as I understand nobody dies in this country—they simply dry up and blow away. So I brought with me a cane, carved by a Georgian, and presented by a Georgiann, which I hope you will keep and cherish as a memento of your trip to Augusta, Georgia, last year.

CHIEF DEVINE : I am just reminded by my venerable friend Judge Goodwin, that I am noted for making poor speeches, He knows me and knows my capacity, or rather incapacity, to-day to make a speech; but I want to say a few words to show my appreciation of this kind remembrance in ptesenting me with this cane. Chief Burrus has said that the work was performed by a Georgian, and it was presented with the understanding that no man dies in Utah—you simply dry up and blow away. He has been consulting my physician, I understand, and found that while I did not die the past week, fourteen pounds dried up and blew away, and keeping on in that proportion, it would not be very long until even the most robust will need a cane. I will say to Chief Burrus, as representing his State and the entire delegation who has come from Georgia to-day, that at no time in my life and in no place that I have ever visited, have I received a more whole souled, cordial and hearty welcome than I received from the people of Georgia; and I want to say, also, that the people of Georgia stood unanimously for Salt Lake City for the convention in 1896. (Applause). I hope that it will be many years before I shall find it incumbent upon me to lean upon this cane with any greater degree of pleasure than I have to-day, and I shall always keep it not only as a token of the kind feeling which I bear towards the gentleman who has presented it, but also to the entire people of the State from whence it came. Thanking you. (Applause).

Previous articlePRINCIPAL FIRES OF THE WEEK.
Next articleNEW ENGINE HOUSES AT HARTFORD, CONN.

SALT LAKE CITY.

0

SALT LAKE CITY.

Twenty-fourth Annual Convention of the

International Association of Fire Engineers.

[Special report to FIRK AND WATER.]

DISCUSSION ON ELEVATOR FIRES (CONTINUED).

CHIEF STETSON: In reply to the gentleman who has just spoken I will say that the elevator mentioned in that topic was situated just as he speaks of; but there was plenty of hose to run through the whole length of the building to which automatic sprinklers were attached. The difficulty, however, there was that the hose contained only a pressure of 56 pounds, the elevator being 175 feet high. Of course, the water was not of sufficient pressure to do any service that high. Now the outside sprinklers were used, there was plenty of hose; but water pressure was not sufficient. The fire originated at the bottom of the passage-way. When I arrived at that elevator, the fire had spread to every floor connected with the passageway to the roof above, so it was utterly impossible to get a stream up there except by concentrating heavy streams and doing the best we could to throw water up there. But, had there been half a dozen sprinklers with outside steamer connections, and could we have connected with this standpipe, we could have increased the pressure 150 or 200 pounds, if necessary, as the sprinkler heads would open by the heat, and we could have assisted in putting water in there that would be effective. Now these sprinkler systems in these elevators can be so arranged with an automatic valve; if supplied with a pipe of 165 pounds pressure and an automatic valve placed in those pipes, we can increase the pressure and get a supply of water as the sprinkler heads open with the heat; but, with 65 pounds pressure to 175 feet, there is no water there. There is no use talking about these elevators 175 feet high. To get water in readily and effectually we must have the appliances. When you come on an elevator or a building of that kind and lay a line of hose and run up seven or eight flights of stairs, 75 or loo feet, there is too much time lost—and that is usually where they start. In this case it started in this passage-way, and immediately spread to the entire floor above. Had there been such an arrangement, and had we put three or four streams upon the ,fire, or several of those, and maintained a pressure of too or 150 pounds on the standpipes, and filled the sprinkler heads as they opened,! think it would have been entirely different from what it was in this case. I think we have thirty-seven elevators in our city with a grain-storing capacity of 122,000,000. All those elevators arc located away to one side on the railroad tracks or down on the bank away from the better water supply, and there is only that oneway that I suggested and recommended, to put in appliances; and that should be done by the railroad people or the man owning thp elevators.

CHIEF HALE; I have had some experience with grain elevators—there are quite a number in our city—it is a large grain market, I had afire about two months ago in an elevator of X,(XJO.OOO bushels capacity. Now there is a great deal in my judgment in keeping an elevatoi clean. In the first place the inspectors should tell the elevator owners to clean up—dust out and keep their places clean—that is one step towards saving an elevator, and it is very important. This elevator that I speak of belongs to the Heim Brewing Company. The fife occurred in the cupola in the top of the building—a fire of that magnitude generally breaks out in the top of the building. The first thing we found the great rubber belt which passes through the chutes in the elevator, generally in the centre of the bin and down through the body of the elevator on the opposite side, had burned in two and dropped down into the body of the elevator. It is not the quantity of water I find that is effective, it is the proper application of it —getting it in the right place. We succeeded in putting out the fife and saving the elevator. It contained about 30,000 bushels of grain. I went below and watched them draw off until I saw the water coming through, and we opened a large cast iron disc, swung it to one side, and down came the gram. It was water-soaked and it took about fifty men to shovel it out. Then we got up into the bin and traced where the mischief was done which was caused by the belt dropping down. We saved that elevator with but little damage to the building —there was about $30,000, loss on the grain. I am satisfied the great thing in favor of the elevator was that it was clean. Had it been full of dust an explosion would have occurred, and it would rapidly have spread through the elevator; but it was a good clean elevator and we got in there and had a chance to get to work and to “ head it off,” as the fellow says. Now this Union elevator and many of our elevators are being supplied with percolated pipes ana you can attach your hose on to a 3 1-4-inch standpipe. We have those pipes connected with water mains—any man working about the establishment can open the valve and turn on the water—it carries the water to the top part of the building and overfloods it. I think this is a good scheme for stopping fire in elevators. We also attach ocr hose and steamers onto the pipes, and it has good effect, because the water falls down through and it holds the water back. All elevators don’t burn up; but it is “ neck and crop ” to save one if it gets under headway and, if it is in a dirty condition, it is sure to go; but I think there is a good deal in keeping it clean. I know when I get hold of a good clean elevator I don’t have so much trouble in fighting the fire.

THE PRESIDENT. There has been a great deal of information given by the various chiefs, what is the desire of the convention in regard to Topic No. 2 ?

It was moved that it be accepted and spread upon the minutes. Carried.

The committee on credentials being ready to report, the report was submitted by the chairman of the committee, Chief Geo. J. Burrus, of Ga.

TOPIC NO. 3.

“ The necessity of fire departments adapting themselves to the new order of things, all glass and no partition walls, large floor space demanded by the present way of conducting business, overhead wires,all machinery that comes in contact with them should be grounded in construction, more effective chemical engines, more force, larger capacity for inside work.” J. D. Paige, Chief fire department, Joliet, III.

CHIEF PAIGE asked to be excused from presenting a paper at the present time—he had intended to prepare a paper last evening, but allowed himself to be led away down to the lake and did not get back until after one o’clock in the morning and did not consider himself in a condition at that time to prepare a paper. He would, however, throw a few bricks for the purpose of opening up a discussion,as the question was broad enough and contained enough to run all the fire departments in creation.

His explanation was accepted and the topic passed for the present.

TOPIC NO. 4.

“Should not tool wagons for carrying appliances be adopted in all fire departments having these extras, instead of loading same on fire engines?” J. A. Archibald. Chief fire department, Cincinnati. Ohio.

As Chief Archibald was not present, the topic was discussed by Chiefs Hale, Pearse, Pelletier, Stetson, and Humphreys.

CHIEF HALE : I think this is a very important matter and should like to hear from some of the chiefs on the subject.

CHIEF PEARSE: I think it is one of the most important topics to be discussed, and I should like to hear expressions of opinion on it .

CHIEF HALE: I have been in Cincinnati. I saw tool wagons run in that department and think they are very valuable auxiliaries to any fire department. In Cincinnati the wagons are constructed in such a manner as to carry nearly every tool that a man can think of that would beuseful to a fire department—extra axes, crow-bars, extra nozzles, wrecking tools, and tools of every description; and in case of a break-down on the road they have the apparatus or implements necessary to repair it right there, and I for one think it is a grand thing. Everything in the fire department used on such occasions is loaded on to the truck, and they keep loading it down—the springs are too weak and the axles are not strong enough. I believe there ought to be something to come in and take the place of that truck and pay a double debt. I would like to hear an expression of opinion from some of the other gentlemen. “ It isa good thing, push it along.”

SUPERINTENDENT PELLETIER: About nine months ago I thought it would be a very good thing to have a supply wagon in connection with our fire patrol in Kansas City, and I laid the matter before the committee and they put in a supply wagon—a new one in which I carried all the extra tools and other necessary implements that I need in my business. In that short space of time that wagon had trebly paid for itself, and I think it would lie a good thing for the fire departments in this country to have in connection with their department.

CHIEF PEARSE said that people would get over their objec. tions to it as they did to the hose wagon. They did not take kindly to it at first; but the more they used it the more useful they found it. CHIEF S⅜ETSON: I have in our department an extra wagon for the past eight years for the purpose of carrying implements as mentioned in the topic, but not wheels or anything of that sort. This wagon that we have is located in the same house where we have our truck, and all the appliances usually carried on the truck are in that wagon—shovels, brooms, chains, ropes, and everything of that description that usually loads down a truck is carried on that wagon; and the wagon is so constructed that it will carry part of the group of men in that company. The wagon is equipped with one or two Babcocks and also some cover that can be used in outside districts. I have found that wagon a very valuable piece of appparatus to our department, and it is also used as an ambulance in carrying the men to the hospital, should any of them meet with an accident while in.the discharge of their duty. It is a very useful and necessary adjunct to a fire department—I would recommend it. We have a man whose duty it is to take care of everything on that wagon; if I should send a strange man to that wagon for something, he wou’d be delayed in finding it and time would be lost. Everything is so compact on that wagon that it is one of the most useful pieces of machinery we have. We carry all kinds of lanterns on it. so that, if we get into a dark building, we can cast the reflectors on it, and there is only one man in forty to take care of it.

CHIEF HUMPHREYS : As this convention has resolved itself into a sort of class-meeting, the chiefs are telling what they have, possibly it would be in order for us to say that we have also some sort of a tool wagon. We do not carry axles on it or wheels; but we do carry a variety of things necessary to a fire department without having seen one anywhere, but prompted only by a desire to increase the competency of the department. As we have no watertower in our town, I carry on this wagon two sections of 31-2 inch hose 32 feet long, a large pipe, 4 inches at the end, and a little box fitted right down inside of the wagon—we have tool boxes in which we carry a number of tools of different kinds; we carry different sized nozzles, a couple of small Siamese with a two i-inch coupler—I have a small reel which carries Cco feet of i-inch hose. If the fire is in the top of a high building, if we do not think it is necessary to tun our large hose up; we take two of these small lines up and make the attachment on the street and put out what little fire there is up there without flooding the building. Each captain of every fire company carries an attachment; he takes the nozzle and screws this on and then attaches a line of small hose. I find this wagon very serviceable indeed. It is run by two of the oldest men in the department, and one of them is as brave a fireman as ever lived. He is eighty years of age. I put a red cap on him, and he is the proudest man you ever saw. In his conversation with men he says: “I have the -best apparatus in the fire department, and it never gives out.” (Laughter.) If the ladies will pardon me, I am only repeating what the old gentleman said ; he is an honest man and as good a father as ever lived.

CHIEF MCAFEE : I am afraid you have called upon some one who does not know much about tool wagons. We have no such thing in our city; all our appliances are carried on hose wagons. From what the different chiefs have said, I think myself that they are a very valuable addition to any fire department, provided enough of them are placed in service, so that there will always be an assurannee that one or more will respond to every alarm. I don’t favor carrying crowbars, axes, and such things on them, because any man in a fire department will know where to go to an aerial truck to get them; but a Siamese connection, ropes, belts, and such things as that, which are not called on often, but likely to be called on, I think it would relieve the apparatus which now is very, much overloaded .in my opinion. It seems to me the desire is to add more to it, and I think the suggestion that some of the chiefs have made that these things be gotten by the different cities is a good one.

SUPERINTENDENT PELLETIER : I move that that topic be taken up again. It is too valuable a topic to be dropped at this time. It should be prepared for the next convention by the executive committee. Motion carried.

TOPIC NO. 6.

“ Should not a municipality give to the fire chief the authority to control the setting of poles and stringing of wires of telephone, telegraph, and electric street railway companies?” —George Knotfiock, Chief fire department, Mansfield, Ohio.

As Chief Knofflock was not present, Superintendent Pelletier made the following motion: “That where topics have been assigned to a member of the association and he is not present, it be referred to a committee of three to bring a report on to-morrow or the next day, so that these topics can be taken up and open for discusrion.” I think ft would be a good idea to bring these topics before the convention by being referred to a committee of three appointed by the chair. Motion carried.

The President appointed the following committee: Pelletier, McAfee, and McConnell to report on topic No. 5.

TOPIC NO. 6.

“ What should be the necessary qualifications of chief of a fire department?”

This topic was left open for discussion by members of the convention, not having been assigned to any one.

FORMER CHIEF JOHNSON, of Philadelphia.—I think the persons who have the greatest pull. (Laughter.) In covering a great deal of the territory of this United States naturally I come in contact with the different modes of government and different means of selecting chief engineers; sometimes it goes by merit, and sometimes otherwise—I think otherwise is the greatest. I might talk about the discipline in the department; but I contend that, where there is a worthy man, he should be retained irrespective of politics, and I am always glad when I come across a department where there is a non partisan board.I know of members who should be present here to-day who are actually kept out of this convention, afraid to leave their own cities because their heads are in danger—good competent men men who have been in touch with this organization since its origination. The system is wrong. I don’t care what city you go to, where there is a competent man to act as chief, he should be retained irrespective of politics, or whoever the fire commissioners or mayor are. or their politics. It works harm sometimes you might sayin a city where a system of that kind is kept up. There is no service in the United States which is so fraught with danger, or which requires more courage or bravery than that of a fireman. When afireman goes to the fire, he takes his life in hishands,from the chief down to the lowest subordinate in the fire service; and that man should be respected and honored by his community. There are no two fires alike. In a city which I visited a short time ago there was a great explosion; the old fireman went into that fire never thinking he would lose his life for an instant, and a number of thenr were carried off to the great service hereafter. The service should be honored and respected and when the merits of the man come up to the standard, irrespective of politics. I spoke about the strongest pull, so it goes; I know what it is. I had experience in that line myself at one time. I don’t suppose a man of intelligence could hardly come and state what would compose the qualifications of a good engineer. There is many a man who might be picked up out of the rough element who would be a competent man in the service by experience or otherwise; but I think myself, Mr. Chairman, the greatest hindrance to the service in this country in regard to competent engineers in the service is partisanship and politics, which are allowed to control the service, which often results in great loss of property. I should like to hear from my brother chiefs on the subject.

CHIEF HEINMILLER: Be sure I am in favor of retaining the old chiefs; but, just as Chief Johnson says.all fire departments should be kept out of politics, also out of religion. If you have a man at the head of your fir? department who is competent to fill the place, the longer you keep him the better service you can get out of him; if he is not competent to fill his place, the sooner you get rid of him the better it will be. Just so with the subordinates. I believe in civil service.I believe those men should be brought to the front—of course, everything being equal. There are a few departments in this country that work under that rule. There are fire commissions composed of two men, representing both parties. The old men are always retained as long as they attend to their business, and removed as soon as they fail in duty; and that is proper. With a change in the government, changes are sometimes made in the departments. The party who is in power naturally favors his own party. You will find that all over. “To the victor belong the spoils”—or the victim rather. That is all I have to say on the subject.

CHIEF LF.MOIN: I believe the question before this convention is, “What are the qualifications of an engineer?” There is not a chief engineer in this room but who has his ideas of a chief engineer, not one, and I would like to hear from some of the older members on that line. What are your ideas on the qualifications of a chief? (Applause.)

CHIEF JOYNER: The chief of my department is not a politician. I am chief of my department, and I hire and discharge all the men. We don’t care whether a man is free silver or gold whether he is a Republican or a Democrat. If he is a good man, he is employed. And as my friend Hcimiller said, we don’t like to mix politics and religion. I don’t know much about those departments where the mayor tries to run the chief. Our department is run strictly on business principles. They put me at the head of it fourteen years ago, and it has been run just that wav. We never had any trouble or opposition, never had any one dictate to me about the men. I have one hundred men under me, and I have absolute control of hiring and discharging chem. They are unfortunate brothers who are mixed up with commissions. I don’t know anything about politics.

CHIEF LEMOIN: There has been nothing said upon the topic, what in our judgment are the qualifications necessary for chief engineer; that is the way I understand it. Whether he is to be a man well educated, or whether he has had any practical experience, or what qualifications he has that fit him for this position. I would like to hear from Chief Humphreys.

CHIEF PAIGE: IS this an open question, Mr. President?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, it is.

CHIEF PAIGE:I have not heard all that has been said upon it. I presume I indorse everything that has been said. But, as I understand the question, it is,What are the necessary requisites for the chief of the fire department? The chief of a fire department in my judgment, should first.be a young man, not an old fellow like me; he will get old quick enough. He should be a man of fine attainments, free from physical disability, and a gentleman. He should be temperate in everything. He should have an excellent education; he should be a civil engineer, that he may understand the construction of buildings; he should be an hydraulic engineer, that he may know all about water pressure and so forth; he should be a mechanical engineer, that he may know when he is purchasing machines whether he is getting machinery properly constructed.and in those large cities where they have skyscrapers, it would be well for him to understand trigonometry, so that he can understand distances. He should be a man that can command a salary as large, as if not larger than any other city official—certainly as large as the mayor, chief of police,or any of the other fellows. (Laughter.) He should be a man capable of filling the highest position in the city government, and, when he has the office of chief of the fire department, he certainly has the highest position, as it requires the greatest ability and skill. (Applause.) Now I am aware that some of my brother chiefs think I am making these remarks in a vein of sarcasm; that,however, Is not true. I honestly and earnestly believe that the best man that can be found in the communitywho has the proper qualifications, is the fit man for chief of the fire department. I might stand here and talk half an hour upon the subject, and it would be about in the same line. 1 enumerated all the qualities that we are likely to attain, and I hope every man will qualify himself for the position. My friend Redell was taken from Chicagoon account of his qualifications, and many other men have been in the same position, and they are entitled to considerable credit. Now, if you have a son that you want to educate for a profession that will pay, make him qualify himself for a fire engineer and get him that position. I don’t quite agree with my friend Johnson,who says he should not be a politician — he should be the finest kind of a politician; he should not be too anxious to inquire into the politics or religion of the me 1 under his charge. The finest kind of a politician is a man who keeps his mouth shut, and never writes letters. This is a fine qualification. (Applause.)

CHIEF REDELL: I merely wish to state that in my estimation the only place to find the man who knows all about the running of a fire department better than any one else, and who is ever anxious to show that he can do such a thing is to be found on the curbstone or sidewalk.

CHIEF HUMPHREYS: I do not know that I can say anything on this topic. I believe there are other qualifications necessary for a successful chief engineer of the fire department among those enumerated here. He should be a director and capable of grasping the position, a practical man to be able to command his men in the best available positions. That kind of a man will do the most effective work, and such a man as that can carry on his work favorably, and he will command the approbation of the public and the authorities — belong to whatever Church or party he may. This is a topic to my mind that we can scarcely draw much information upon by discussion in this body. Whoever suggested placing this topic upon our program, I for one would be very glad to hear him express himself as to what he thinks are the necessary qualifications for a chief of the fire department. Go to some town or large city and witness the firemen s parade or firemen’s turnout—the chief at the head of them fixed up in pomp and style. He may be the best fireman in the department -and he may not be; he may be a good jolly fellow and made chief particulary on that account—and,as you will observe as you go along, the populace will say: ” That is the best chief of fire department the world ever saw.” Thus in discussing this question here we might set forth other qualifications, but, as my friend from Ohio said: “ The best judge is the curbstone critic,” he knows it all; he tells the fire department all that is necessary to know. After all, I think possibly the best thing for us to do as chiefs of our respective departments is to impress upon our authorities the necessity of purchasing and securing proper apparatus to operate our fire departments, and then to put ourselves in the best position to do the work as best as we can. Sometimes, we have seen it recorded of a chief who was to be commended for his good work in the past, and above all others he is the best chief. The first thing you know, the papers report that half of his town is burned down and he and his department are no good; and thus it goes. We might listen to essays, treatises, and other means of discussing this topic, and still in our minds be undecided. As I said before, the best thing for us to do, the best qualification is for us to learn, practise, and put into effect the best method of conducting a department and do the best we can, and trust to the future. (Applause.)

A DELEGATE : “Experience joined to common sense to mortals is a Providence.” Experience teaches everything. To begin with, we have not enough schools of instruction in our fire departments. No matter what artisan, if he is not proficient with his tools, he is not competent. I do not wish to cast any reflections upon the department of which I happen to take charge; but I actually have found men in the department, I am sorry to say, that did not know their tools. Theory is a beautiful thing, but practice is far better. Combine the two, and they are more effective. If you cannot train your whole department at once, you can in sections.

CHIEF RKDKLL thought that the first requisite of a chief was a thorough knowledge of hi* business,

CHIEF HALE: As far as my friend Paige is concerned, he left out the most important part of all, that is, carrying a thermometer to take the temperature of the firemen before throwing water. I think this Is the most important, and he left that out. (Laughter.) I have visited a great many fire departments in the United States and it does me good when I go into a town to hear them say, ” We have the best fire department in the world.” Every crow thinks its own young ones the blackest; that is the way we want to educate them, to think there is no other man like us—and we arc right. A very important thing to do, if the water main is not large enough, or we lack apparatus, do not forget to call attention to it in the inspection report, and,if it is urgent, tell them so. There are a great many engineers who are well qualified but who have not the apparatus to work with. Employ the best mechanics on earth, and, if you do not give him tools to work with, he cannot accomplish much. A fire chief should be a gentleman, and he should exercise a great deal of good judgment, and should have a good deal of influence over his men. and should educate them to realize the responsibilities of being firemen, that is, to know howto handles fire, and to become familiar with the toots in the department, to be ready to step out before the citizensof the city, and not make a bungle in coupling hose if you call for a hose. We want every fireman in the department to be familiar with every tool in that department and for what it is used. In my department I have the name of having the best fire department in the world—in my town the same as the others. I have a sort of gymnasium, my drill house, a hall, which consists of all the appliances used in the fire service. Every morning there is a man detailed from each company to report at headquarters and go through a regular drill, which consists of manual exercises in addition to the regular service, coupling hose, ladder work, and so forth. I drive around the city seeing the boys running making couplings, putting on the pipes, etc., and the result is, when they get down to work they get a move on themselves, and that goes a long way to add to the efficiency of the fire department. I knoxr my success depends on the men under me. The chief engineer is not the only man who puts out the fire; it is the men under him who do the work; and, if he can only enlist the good will of the men and undertake to do his duty properly, then you will have the public with you every time. As far as employing a competent man for the position of chief of the fire department, I think the board of underwriters are the men who should have a great deal of the say. as they are the men who pay for the fires. When we get into a political fight, and undertake to remove an engineer for political cause, I think the underwriter should step in and have something to say. If the board of underwriters should step in and say, “ We will put up your rates so much, as we want good men in there,” I think it would be a great help in retaining competent men in the position.

SUPERINTENDENT PELLETIER :—I think we have had about all the information upon this subject that we can possibly obtain from this convention, and I, therefore, move that this topic be set aside, and we approach the next one. Carried.

CHIRP HIGGINS: I move that topic be received and inserted in the minutes, together with the discussions on the same, so that the different engineers of this country can presentit to their constituents. Carried.

TOPIC NO. 7.

“ Some dangers to be apprehended from the transformer system of electric lighting. Should cities with a population of 75,000 and over organize and maintain an efficient electrical bureau to supervise new and old insulations of electrical wires, motors and generators for the best protection of life and property”—Capt. Wm. Brophy. Boston, Mass. ;Wm. McDevitt, Philadelphia, Pa.; Morris W. Mead, Pittsburgh. As Capt, Brophy, who was to read a paper, was not present, a motion was made and carried that the topic be referred to the committee appointed to report on papers that were assigned to parties who were not present.

Tone NO. 8.

“ Do town and city authorities realize the danger of electrolysis due to imperfect return-conductors of street railways.” Same committee as topic No. 7.

It was moved and carried that the topic take the same course as Topic No. 7. 1

TOPIC NO. 9.

” How can the modern tall buildings be best protected by the fire department?”—S. Brentano, New York city. As Mr, Brentano was not present, a motion was made and carried that that topic take the same course as the previous one.

TOPIC No. 10.

” local Fire Insurance Agent. His relative position to the chief of the fire department.” J. A. Crawford, Chief fire department, Benton Harbor, Mich.

The business of Fire Insurance is that of hazarding the payment of large sums of money in consideration of the payment to them of a comparatively small premium:

1st. Upon statistics more or less reliable as to the chance of conflagration by fire.

ad. Dependence upon the efficiency of appliance and water supply of municipalities and faithfulness to duty on the part of the firemen.

These insurance companies have found it necessary, in or. der to minimize the hazard, to provide such safeguards and regulations as experience has taught them to be of value in preventing fires. Now in some States the local agent is charged with putting these resolutions and safeguards in effect, and thus he becomes a factor of prevention against fire; but he has merely done his duty towards his company, and his company has merely taken the precautions without which they could not safely do business, and without which its business would be in a large degree against the public good. ‘

flit Relationship.—The alarm sounds. Firemen respond to the call. They probably find the local insurance agent on the ground; they also find the owner of the burning building there. Both are anxious; one for his company, the other for himself—for the owner is nearly always a sharer in the risk with insurance companies. Now you ask in what relation the insurance agent stands to the firemen, and I answer that he occupies precisely the same position towards firemen as that occupied by the citizen and by society itself towards firemen. In the presence cf devastating flames the fireman is the representative of society and the common weal. He is not considering what may be the loss to this or that insurance company ; he knows his duty, and that is, to use every effort both of brain and muscle to arrest the course of the destroying flames. He receives orders from no one ; the path of his duty is straight, and. if the fire insurance agent and the property owners have done their duty, the risk to his life and limb is reduced to the minimum. If the citizen and fire insurance agent have done their duty, the utmost precautions and the best of modern appliances for the prevention of fire have failed, and the fireman knows this when he enters the building. He should also know and feel that no avoidable or unnecessary traps exist in the building to endanger his life in the discharge of his duty.

Duty of Local Agents—It might probably be said that it is the duty of local fire insurance agents to give their active and moral support to maintaining the appliances of fire departments at their highest state of efficiency; but it might also be said with equal force that this is the duty of every good citizen; indeed, I fail to discover, as I understand the inquiry contained in the topic, where there isany difference between the local fire insurance agent and the citizen, so far as their relation to firemen is concerned; the fire department being established for the good and safety of all the public, and discharging that duty alike to the company which has taken fire-risks for a premium, and to the humblest citizen who sleeps insecurity, believing that his department will faithfully discharge its duty—and this is true with respect to paid, as well as volunteer departments. Let the insurance agent, the insurance company, and the citizens do their duty, and I venture nothing in saying that the record justifies a firm belief that fire departments will do theirs with efficiency and with impartiality. (Applause.)

CHIEF HIGGINS: I hold that each city should conduct an insurance business of its own. Such an arrangement would lessen fire losses and prove remunerative to the municipalities.

SUPERINTENDENT PELLETIER : It places me in a rather an awkward position to stand and face the question, as I represent the underwriters in a certain degree, being a member of the insurance patrol of Kansas City. I most heartily believe without fear of contradiction that the local insurance agents in the city and community can, if they see fit, benefit the chief of the fire department more than any other body or set of business men in that city. The chief of the fire department and the local insurance agent should work hand in hand as much as possible. We very often hear the local insurance agent condemning the chief of the fire department and the chief of the fire department condemning the local insurance agent. Now, when the insurance companies appoint an agent,-they think he is an honorable man and generally look into his character as muen as possible,and they expect him to look after their business and protect the risks. I feel, when the chief of the fire department finds in the community a proper insurance man, one who tries to protect a risk, he should exert himself to the fullest extent to help him. But sometimes you will find a man who is after the premium—who does not try to protect the risk—he is a hindrance to the fire department and the insurance companies of this country. I heartily believe that the chief of the fire departments and local insurance agents should work together. If they did, the risks would be less and the losses reduced 50 per cent., and it would be much better all around.

RECEPTION.

After the adjournment there was a reception at the Knutsford, which presented a brilliant scene. Among the informal speakers Senator Cannon said: I am really not pleased at this opportunity of speaking to the chiefs for I have had several stage frights, and this is an occasion which causes the same fear. I once used to run with the machine, as all good boys are wont to do. Once I stood on the ridge pole of a shed and a fireman came and knocked me off with the force of water from his nozzle, and ever since I have had a tremor of fear when coming near a fireman, and I am afraid that one of you will want to extinguish me now. Certainly the provocation is greater. I wish that we could all run today, even as the boy after an engine who seeks the scene of conflagration.I wish that we could all work for the upbuilding of the physical, moral, and political structures of the Nation with a full consciousness of a duty to perform. The fire chief, always alert to the call of duty, offers up his life in his highest achievement. He is the greatest of all guardians of our property. His life is jeopardized daily, nightly, in the performance of his duty, and in the protection of others’ lives and property he gives more and receives less than any other men. (Applause.) I wish all men to know that there has been a new torch set to this glorious Republic. I wish all citizens would rush to the sound of the bell and help put out the conflagration. It is a wider sphere and they should be on the alert, taking the example of the firemen, and remembering that in 1896 they have a duty to perform.” (Applause.)

SECOND DAY’S PROCEEDINGS.

Tuesday’s program included the morning session and after lunch a trip to Garfield Beach, with lunch there, and a grand ball at the pavilion in the evening.

At the opening of the session President Roulett announced the discussion of

TOPIC NO. 1,

“How are private fire departments to be probably organized, drilled, and made a useful adjunct to the city fire departments?” This topic had been passed the preceding day, and had been assigned to Herbert Heston, fire marshal of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company.

FIRE MARSHAL HESTON; The executive committee has assigned to me Topic No. 1, and I respectfully submit the following for your consideration and discussion. To organize and drill a private fire department properly, so that it may be a useful adjunct to the city fire department, is a matter needing careful thought and considerable fire experience. In the first place, the man in charge should be a good organizer,cool and fearless in emergencies and with some experience in fire fighting. He should have full control of his department and be on good terms with the chief of the city department, consulting him frequentl y as to the details of his department and having his appliances come as near the city standards as possible. The men comprising the private fire department should be young, active, and fairly intelligent. The assistant chiefs should be selected from the oldest and most trustworthy employes. Drills should be had weekly, but at no set time, just as actual fires are liable to occur at the most unexpected time, so that at any time the fire department would be ready to respond promptly and have everything ready for service. The men should be drilled in the use of the various fire apparatus, putting same in service occasionally to familiarize them with their working, so that, when the fire occurs, they will be able to handle the appliances in an effective manner, and, like a good mechanic who knows his tools and depends upon them, the private fireman will stand considerable smoke and heat, knowing that in the chemical engine or water line of hose he has something that will enable him to stand and make a good fight. Private fire departments should organize on the principle that they are to extinguish fires in their incipient stages, and not to put out conflagrations—for a fire once started has been known to get away from not only private departments, but well-organized city departments. By instilling care among employees, with careful inspections of the property at stake by the chief and assistants, the liability to fire will be -considerably reduced, and as ” the ounce of prevention is worth the pound of cure,” care to reduce the fire risks will be foundto pay and wil 1 lessen the necessity for the actual services of either the private or the city departments. In the event of a large fire on, or adjacent to the property guarded by a private fire department, they can be of considerable service to the city department by protecting their own plant with hose, etc., and possibly put one or more lines in the service on the fire, under the direction of the city chief. Care should be taken to instruct the men that no chances must be taken with a fire, and that, if it looks at all dangerous,the alarm should be promptly sent to the city fire department, while they are endeavoring to extinguish it— for many a disastrous conflagration has ensued upon the failure to carry out this plan. If the private department can put the fire out, well and good—the city department will have nothing to do upon arrival; but, if allowed to get headway, a hard fight will confront them both, and, once started, who can tell where a fire can be stopped. I know there is more or less prejudice among the city chiefs towards pii vate fire department; but I think this has arisen from the fact that the average private chief has an idea that he knows it all, and does not care to consult with the city chief. This is a grave error, as no one can learn fire-fighting from books, and an occasional talk with the chief engineer and an attendance at city fires, where close observations should be made, will tend to instruct and broaden the views of the private chief and form a friendship that will be of benefit to both. In my fifteen years’ experience as chief of the Pennsylvania railroad fire departments, I am glad to say that my relations with Chief Catlin and our present gallant and efficient Chief Baxter were always of the most cordial nature, and have been of incalculable benefit to my company and myself, as it has enabled me to so organize and drill my department that it has been of value, not only to the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, but also to the city fire department in extinguishing numerous small fires and working at several large ones, thus proving that we are a useful adjunct to the Philadelphia fire department.

DISCUSSION.

CHIEF JOYNER: I move that the report be received and spread upon the minutes. Carried.

CHIEF HESTON: This is a topic it seems to me for discussion. I have traveled 2,200 miles to attend this convention for the purpose of learning something from older men in the business, who have had experience in practical fire-fighting. Topics were discussed yesterday, and it seemed to me that this is a topic that might be discussed for my benefit, and possibly for the benefit of others. I should be very glad to hear the fire chiefs say something on this subject.

CHIEF PAIGE: Chief Heston has so covered the ground that it doesn’t leave much of anything to say. In theorganization of private fire departments, as he states in his report there, they should have weekly drills, and not any stated time for drills. That is what makes private fire departments perfect. We have in our city a private fire department, and they have those drills, and they put out quite a number of fires. We have quite a number of State institutions in our city and they all have their private fire departments but they are not drilled, they simply have their lines of hose connected with the standpipe. and they carry them on a reel. . On several occasions we had fires there, and they called on our fire department for assistance. When we would get there we would find the hose lying on the floor, and no one with it, for,as a general thing.it keeps the employes who constitute the private fire departments busy getting out the inmates of those State institutions. Not having any practical experience, the moment they see a little fire and smoke, they drop and run. If they had those impromptualarms and drills it would make it more perfect.

CHIEF BURRUS: In regard to private fire departments, of which we have several in the large cotton mills,machine shops, etc.,will say—-We had a fire in the dy e house of the Eagle and Phoenix Manufacturing Company. They called us in in threequarters of an hour after the fire was discovered. About that time I arrived and took charge, and after three hours of hard work we controled the fire. While there, I led a squad of their men with a line of hose and I was accompanied by one of my own men; as 1 turned to give them an order,I found they had all disappeared excepting my own man, and then I had a wrestle over the floor with the pipe. I called to my man for assistance, and he replied: “Chief, I cannot help you, lam nearly exhausted with smoke,” When he regained his breath he came, and fortunately there was a ropeat tached to the pipe and we fastened it to the window sash, thereby controling the stream and putting out the fire. We were at another time about six months ago called up to the Columbus Iron works. Adjacent to the iron works is a large lumber yard and planing mill and dry house. The dry house caught on fire after the alarm was sounded. We arrived at the scene and put on two streams and practically had the fire under control, and their men put on one stream after we had the fire practically under control. They had their fire department, but had no head,and I think, as Chief Heston said, a fire department should be well disciplined and controled and well organized.

CHIEF PEARSE: We have a number of private fire departments. The trouble with us is they have so many changes of men in the railroad shops that they are inexperienced. There is one othergreat trouble, and that is keeping up the condition of the appliances. They imagine a section of hose is good for ten years. They may not have any fire during that time, and the first time they go to use it, it goes to pieces— that is one of the greatest troubles. Another thing is relying on the private fire department too much. Instead of giving the alarm promptly for the city fire departments, they often rely upon their resources, and in that way cause extensive conflagrations and greater loss than if the city fire department was called upon at once. That’s about the only experience I have had in regard to the matter.

CHIEF HESTON: In our organization I have directed the men always to sound the city fire alarm. We have had several fires, and one very large one within a few months, and our own alarm and the other fire alarm was struck at the same time. No time was lost in that direction by the men in charge at the various stations. As soon as the fire is discovered the alarm must be sounded to the city fire department. With one exception, we have always been able to hold the fire. We had a fire at the Fourth street station in January. Some of you gentlemen are probably familiar with it. The executive committee is, I know. The fire started in the kitchen over the ranges, which are constructed the same as a hotel range, running from the ventilator. The wood ran along galvanized iron pipe 100 feet long, I presume, and 300 feet in diameter, into a galvanized iron stack from the first floor to the fifth floor. This was to ventilate the kitchen, and prevent any odors getting into the offices. I objected to it when it was erected, and told them it would give us trouble some day. The grease, etc., would line the pipe, and we should have trouble. It happened at half past one in the afternoon that the fire was discovered. The fire was seen coming out of the hood over the range, and the lower end of the shaft was on fire. They came to me and told me to hurry up stairs; the fire was on the second, third, and fourth floors. I knew what it was— this shaft was on fire all the way up. I detailed two men to each floor. We caught the fire and extinguished it. The city fire department came in near by; but they had nothing to do. My experience has been, as I said in my report,that the average private fire chief thinks he knows it all, like the side walk engineer He doesn’t familiarize himself with fires by going to them. There’s where I got my experience—by going to the fires day and night. We have thirty-three stations. There are shops, grain elevators, warehouses, steamboat shops, and there is hardly a fire that can happen except right in the centre of the business portion of the city, that I do not have to respond to; consequently, 1 have had considerable experience, and, when I first took hold of this business, I made up my mind to get a practical experience by going to fires, and that’s the way I have got it—through the kindness of invitations from Chief Engineer Baxter, of Philadelphia; going to fires and getting acquainted with the men, watching their work. 1 found that of vast importance to me, and it seems to me that’s the way for a private chief to run his department—not with the idea that they] are superior to the city departments, or that th»y are so well organized or so well equipped that they do not need the aid of the city department. I think that a man that has that impression had better get out of the business— and the sooner he gets out the better. My experience is, we can learn something new from every fire that we go to, for no two fires arealike, and, if he wants to be a practical fireman, he wants to go to fires. He can’t get it from books.

CHIEF DICKENSON : The ground has been pretty well covered. Do these private departments take any reports of the incidental fires, losses, insurance, or anything of that kind ? That’s the only trouble I can find with them. Some of them are very well equipped ; some of them are very good, but they neglect to make any reports to the city fire departments. I would suggest to all gentlemen in charge of those outside fire departments to make some arrangements with the chiefs, to make reports of fires, together with the losses, insurance, etc. That is all.

CHIEF HESTON : I think the suggestion made by Chief Dickenson, of Cleveland, in regard to making arrangements with the chiefs to report fires, together with the losses, insurance, etc., is a very good one. It is a very good point, and I am glad you brought it up, and I shall be pleased to take the matter up just as soon as I get home, and act upon the suggestions.

The President called for Topic No. 4.

SUPERINTENDENT PEIXETIER: After looking into the matter this morning on motion of Chief Pearse, of Denver, the topic relative to “ tool wagons ” was to go over until the next convention to be taken up and discussed.

The President called for the report on Topic No. 5, which had been submitted to a committee of three.

REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON TOPIC NO. $■

Salt Lake City, August n, 1896.

Your committee appointed to report on Topic No. 5, respectfully submit the following: Topic No. 5. “Should not a municipality give to the fire chief the authority to control the setting of poles,and stringing of wires cf telephone, telegraph, and electric street railwaycompanies.? ” Your committee is of the opinion that the duties of achief of fire department should be confined entirely to the management and direction of the force under his command; the sole object of a fire department in any city being the extinguishment of a fire, and,as far as possible, to prevent the occurence of a fire. The placing of poles, stringing of wires etc , should in our opinion be done under the direction of the board of publit works, the director of public safety, or some such officers or office to be appointed by the legislative body of the city. Such sections as above outlined would place the responsibility in a quarter, where in our opinion it properly belongs. Respectfully, J. F. Pelletier, R. G. McConnell, YVm. C. McAfee,

CHIEF PEARSE: I move that report on Topic No. 5, be received and spread upon the minutes. Carried.

CHIEFS PRESENT.

ALABAMA—M Sloan, Mobile; J T Mullen, Birmingham; R W Robinson, Montgomery; A J Mercier, New Decatur. —Robert Fromm, Phoenix ARIZONA—Robert Fromm, Phoenix. California—H A Guthrie, Sacramento. CONNECTICUTF P Beardslee, Bridgeport; A J Kennedy, New Haven; C E. Leonard, delegate State Association COLORADO— Springs; J Allen, Men, Cripple Creek; Geo W Hook, Pueblo; J A Richardson, TrimFlorida—A J Harris, Tampa; T W Haney, Jacksonville; State Association, A J Harris, delegate.

GEORGIAV R Joyner, Atlanta; Geo W Burma; Columbus; T J Roulett, Augusta.

Illinois—J l>r Paige, Joliet; State Association, E W Rarkman, delegate; C W Dcvoe, Decatur; J F Jaeckel, Pekin; Carl Moeller, Peoria; MJ Myers, Mount Pulaski; (J O Purdy, Fast St l-miis.

Indiana—W H Willoughby, l,afayetie; Wm. Schlavick. NewAlbany. Iowa—A P Fogg, Boone; Geo M Kellogg, Sioux City; Joe Reinfreid. Dubuque; J E Bentley, Chariton; C Hacker, Muscatine.

Kansas—L W Norman, Kansas City.

Kentucky—H W Yates, Lexington; J Meyers,Covington.

Louisiana—J R Bulger, New Orleans*

Maine—Frank B Moody, Deering; M N F.ldridge, Portland. Massachusetts—Wm Beals, Lawrence.

Montana—Geo L Lapp, Butte; Geo F.laton, Anaconda; James Bums, Great Falls; A 1 Warner, Butte.

Maryland—Wm C McAfee, Baltimore.

Michigan—L A Bentley, Eaton Rapids; State. Association, F W Peabody, delegate; Henry Lemoin, Grand Kanids; E P Hilmer, Jackson;

J A Crawlord, Benton Harbor; J C Tolan, Escanaha.

Minnesota—F L Stetson, Minneapolis.

Missouri—Geo C Hale, Kansas City; J G Pelletier, Kansas City; C E Swingley, St Louis. «

NEBRASKAF M Smith, South Omaha; J Redell, Omaha; John Wilson, Kearney.

NEW YORKE J Jewhurst, Auburn; A C Hull, New York city; M E Higgins, Albany; Hugh Bonner, New York city; R G Blackburn. Oswego; B J McConnell, Buffalo; J It Haight, Peekskill; J Malcom, Rochester; Nicholas Eckels, Syracuse.

NEW Jersey.—S S Elfreth, Camden; State Association, William F.xall, delegate; William Durham, New Brunswick.

NORTH Carolina.—State Firemen’s Association, J J Stone, delegate,

P P Sawyer, Asheville.

Ohio.—Henry A Hills, Wyoming; D C Larkins, Dayton; C F Reift Fremont; E W Simpson, Springfield ;1J W, Dickenson, Cleveland; Henr> Heintniller, Columbus; J j Conway, Cincinnati; E L Winchell, Zanesville.

Pennsylvania.—State Firemen’s Association, G W Brooks, delegate; MS Humphreys. Pittsburgh, Herbert Heston, Philadelphia; C H Cohn, Allentown; J C Baxter, Jr., Philadelphia; John K Hunter, Allegheny; Geo. W Miller, Reading; W H Johnson, Philadelphia; J J McMahon, Erie; John Slingluff, Norristown.

RHODE ISLANDCharles H Swan, Pawtucket; John Brierly, Pawtucket; Irving F Platt, Central Falls; W Fiske, Olneyville; J W Willmarth, Paw-

Tennesskk.—James Burke, Memphis.

Texas.—Thomas Wilkinson, Dallas.

Utah.—William Binford, Ogden; James Devine, Salt I.ake City; Geo. Hanson, Eureka; M H Pape, Park City.

Vermont.—State Firemen’s Association, Lawrence W Clark, delegate.

Virginia.—George W Taylor, Richmond; State Firemen’s Association, James Me Fall, delegate; E V Farley, Petersburg.

Wisconsin.—Joshua Hodgins, Marinette.

Wyoming—Joseph I redale, Rock Springs; F A Roedel, Cheyenne. ASSOCIATE Members—J B Markey, New York city; J C Ryan, do.; W J Whiting, do.; B Locb, do.; T Mcllroy, Jr., do.; J H Pearson, Auburn, N. Y.; W J Waboer, Boston, Mass.; D Arthur Burt, do.; J B Cooper, Minneapolis, Minn.; GM Ottinger, Salt I.ake City, Utah.

FIREMEN,VISITORS,AND Manufacturers—W S Coates, Coatsville, Pa., fire commissioner; J P Miller, Montgomery, Ala., superintendent fire alarm; T E Smith, Jr., Chicago, 111., editor “ Western Fireman;” A C Briner, New York city, representing KIRK AND WATER; Lawrence W Clark, New York city, ” Firemen’s Herald;” R T Polglas* and Thomas Burke, Chicago, representing Fire Extinguisher Manufacturing Company, Chicago; Willis C Vajen, Indianapolis: C N Richardson, Providence, K !.; C A Hoagland, New York city; Cornelius Cal’ahan, Canton Junction, Mass.

NEW MRMHERS.

The following new members and delegates for State Firemen’s organization* were enrolled on the report of the committee of credentials; John Shingluff, Norristown, Pa; G N Hock, Pueblo, Col; Nicholas F.ckc), Syracuse, NY; I W Wilmarth, Pawtucket, R I; James A Richardson,

I rinidad, Col; George O Purdy, East St Louis. Ill; Conrad Hacker, Muscatine, la; WillSchlavick, Evansville, Ind; M J Myers. Mount Pulaski, III; John Wilson, Kearney, Neb: A J Mercier, New Decatur. Ala;

A J Warner, Butte, Mont; George Elston, Anaconda, Mont* James Burns, Great Falls, Mont; L A Roedel, Cheyenne, Wyo; L N Newman,

*” .1 Durham, Jr., New Brunswick, N.J.; Georg*

N Pape, Park City, Utah; Joseph iredale, K;

_« C

ock

Kansas City, Kas Will Durham

l;App, Butte, Mont.; W N Pape, i«m VHT, wwu; IUKUU H«U«IC, min Springs, Wyo.; Charles G Leonard,Willimanttc, Conn.; Frank K. Herr, Westminster, Ind.; I J Stone, Greenboro, N. C.; Robert Fromm, Phoenix, Ariz.; George Hansen, Eureka, Utah; D N Loveless, Provo, Utah; J G Bentley. Chariton, la.

STATE FIREMEN’S ASSOCIATIONS.

William Exall, Nsw Jersey; J J Stone, North Carolina; L W Clark.Vermont; G W Blackman, Illinois; George W Brooks, Pennsylvania; F W Peabody, Michigan.

LADY VISITORS.

J C Baxter, Miss Reading; MrsC H

Mrs J D Paige, Joliet; Mrs Herbert Heston, Mrs I^owncsbury, Philadelphia; Mrs George W Miller, Reading;

Cohn, Allentown,*Pa ; Mrs. R Heinmilier, Columbus.O; Mrs Geo. M Kellogg. Siotix City; Mrs Joseph Kinfreid, Dubuque; Mr*. J. Keiler, Sioux City; Mr*. E W Simpson, Springfield, (3; Mr* W J Whiting, New York; MrsT E Smith, Jr. Chicago; Mrs. Henry C Griffin, Tarrytown; Mrs. James H Haight, Peektknl; Miss Rtuh Burns. Mis* Myra C Burns, Herkimer, N V.; Mr*. Henry A Hills, Wyoming,O.; Mr*. M R Morrison. Hartwell, O.; Mrs. F L Stetson. Minneapolis; Mrs.K F, Baty, Colorado Springs; Mrs. W R Joyner, Atlanta; Mrs. Julius Pearse, Denver; Mrs. Georg*W Hook, Pueblo; Mrs. W H Ltoiuger, Topeka; Mrs. J W Dickenson, Cleveland.

(To b« concluded.)